Red Sea Mature Starter Kit issue with water values

[Gabbone]

Hi guys,

This is my first post ever sorry for any dumb questions!

I am new to Reef World and I've started my first cycle in a blue marine 30g tank with a back AIO sump.

I've bought the Red Sea Mature Starter Kit and I've been following the day-by-day guide.

Right now I am on Day 10 where I am supposed to have the following readings:

- Ammonia: 0ppm
- Nitrite: 0ppm
- Nitrate: 10ppm

That's what I currently have (everything has been tested twice to be sure):

- Ammonia: 1ppm
- Nitrite: 0.2ppm
- Nitrate: 35ppm
- Dkh: 11 (I am using Red Sea Coral Pro Salt which has high Dkh, so I am not adding their Kh-Coralline Gro buffer as asked in their day-by-day guide to raise the Dkh level)
- Ph: 7.6 - 7.8
- Temp: 78.8 f (26celsius)
- Salinity: 1.022 / 1.023

Very important takeaways:

- After 10 days, my skimmer seems to have not broken in yet. No actual foam, but just very little bubbles or very big ones. It goes a bit crazy sometimes (Just once it made a consistent foam for a couple of hours). I usually put it off during the night to avoid overflow from the collector cup.
- I haven't used wet rocks / live rocks but dry Real Reef Rocks.
- According to their guide, I am supposed to have algae, and diatoms around day 5 but still nothing at day 10.
- Until days 7-8 I've never registered Nitrite. This is actually the first time.
- Funny that If you look at their "Day 3", I am supposed to have:
- Ammonia 1ppm
- Nitrite 0.1ppm
- Nitrate 36ppm
So it seems that their Day 3 looks like my Day 10.

Am I crazy, or am I messing up everything? I am kind of scared!

Could you maybe help me? Thanks to everyone in advance!!! And happy reefing!!!

Hugs from Italy,
Gabbonez

 

[Ron Reefman]

IMHO the people that wrote the Red Sea kit instructions are way off base.
I'll write more later, but I'm being called to breakfast by my wife!

 

[Gabbone]

IMHO the people that wrote the Red Sea kit instructions are way off base.
I'll write more later, but I'm being called to breakfast by my wife!

Thank you very much! I am gonna wait for your answer!!!

 

[Katrina71]

Lots of things you read will not necessarily be true in your tank.

 

[Ron Reefman]

Just to let you know where I'm coming from, I've been in the hobby for 20+ years and currently have two 40g tanks that are aio. One is a cube I made and is all coral and CUC (Clean Up Crew), no fish. The other is 95% local stuff I've collected in the Florida Keys or local SW Florida beaches and estuaries. And that tank just has 2 clownfish I took in from a friend who was shutting down his tank.

So, how familiar are you with the Nitrogen cycle that starts the cycle in your tank?

Brand new water and rock need something add ammonia to the water. Nitrites and nitrates should be zero or very close to it. In time (a few days to maybe as long as a couple of weeks) a bacteria will develop in the tank that uses ammonia for energy and then gives off nitrite as a by product. This will start to bring the ammonia level down and start to raise the nitrite level.

Then a new bacteria will also start to develop that use nitrite for energy and give off nitrate as a by product. This can be one to three weeks after the tank is set up. Ammonia levels continue to go down the nitrite levels start to level off or go down.

Nitrate is a component in fertilizer. Any plants or algae in the tank will take up the nitrate. But most new tanks don't have plants or much algae. So the nitrate levels go up. BTW, the algae that lives inside coral polyps called zooxanthellae, also use nitrate as food. So some amount of nitrate is OK, but too much causes an algae bloom.

About this point in time, maybe 2 weeks if things progress quickly, or as long as 6 or 8 weeks if things move along slowly (probably better for your long term success) you will want to do a water change to lower the nitrate level.

In time, as the tank matures over the next 6 to 12 months, these forces will come into a basic balance. Ammonia and nitrite will always be zero or very close to it, and nitrate will be something you'll test for. Some tanks never have issues with nitrate and some tanks (mostly because they are over stocked and/or over fed) will have ongoing issues with nitrate. They will need regular water changes or use some other means to remove nitrate, like a reactor with GFO (Granular Ferric Oxide).

For now you should test for all 3 things and keep a diary or chart. In time, you will also test for Ca (calcium) and alkalinity and occasionally Mg (magnesium). These are the 3 chemicals that stony corals and shell making critters use to make skeleton and shell.

Feel free to ask any questions you have. I remember how overwhelmed and lost I was when I started with a 30g tank 24 years ago!

 

[Gabbone]

Dear Ron thank you so much for this message! Now I feel less alone

I am gonna test the Ammonia, Nitrates and Nitrites daily and see.

What should I do with the Red Sea starter kit guide? Should I keep following their steps? As reported on day 10, I should add:
- Add 5 ml of Bacto-Start per 100L of water.
- Add 5 ml of Nitro Bac per 100L of water.
- Add 3 ml of NO3PO4-X per 100L of water

Should I do that?

Also, in about 4 days, they recommend a 5% water change.

I really don't know what should I do now. ..

 

[Gabbone]

UPDATE DAY 11:

In the end, I followed the guidebook and yesterday night I added 5ml Bactostart and 5ml Nitrobac. After reading another topic regarding Red Sea mature starter kit I haven't added Nopox. (That's the last time the guidebook suggest to add Bactostart and Nitrobac. (At day 10).

Now, on day 11, I did some tests and I got the following:

- Ammonia: 2ppm
- Nitrite: 0.3ppm
- Nitrate: 40ppm
- Dkh: 11 (I am using Red Sea Coral Pro Salt which has high Dkh, so I am not adding their Kh-Coralline Gro buffer as asked in their day-by-day guide to raise the Dkh level)
- Ph: 7.8
- Temp: 78.8 f (26celsius)
- Salinity: 1.023

Am I in the right direction?

Ciao, Gabri

 

[gbroadbridge]

Hi guys,

This is my first post ever sorry for any dumb questions!

I am new to Reef World and I've started my first cycle in a blue marine 30g tank with a back AIO sump.

I've bought the Red Sea Mature Starter Kit and I've been following the day-by-day guide.

Right now I am on Day 10 where I am supposed to have the following readings:

- Ammonia: 0ppm
- Nitrite: 0ppm
- Nitrate: 10ppm

That's what I currently have (everything has been tested twice to be sure):

- Ammonia: 1ppm
- Nitrite: 0.2ppm
- Nitrate: 35ppm
- Dkh: 11 (I am using Red Sea Coral Pro Salt which has high Dkh, so I am not adding their Kh-Coralline Gro buffer as asked in their day-by-day guide to raise the Dkh level)
- Ph: 7.6 - 7.8
- Temp: 78.8 f (26celsius)
- Salinity: 1.022 / 1.023

Very important takeaways:

- After 10 days, my skimmer seems to have not broken in yet. No actual foam, but just very little bubbles or very big ones. It goes a bit crazy sometimes (Just once it made a consistent foam for a couple of hours). I usually put it off during the night to avoid overflow from the collector cup.
- I haven't used wet rocks / live rocks but dry Real Reef Rocks.
- According to their guide, I am supposed to have algae, and diatoms around day 5 but still nothing at day 10.
- Until days 7-8 I've never registered Nitrite. This is actually the first time.
- Funny that If you look at their "Day 3", I am supposed to have:
- Ammonia 1ppm
- Nitrite 0.1ppm
- Nitrate 36ppm
So it seems that their Day 3 looks like my Day 10.

Am I crazy, or am I messing up everything? I am kind of scared!

Could you maybe help me? Thanks to everyone in advance!!! And happy reefing!!!

Hugs from Italy,
Gabbonez

You'll notice that the instructions for the RS Mature kit state that the tank is supposed to be started with live rock and sand.

As you started with dry rock, it will take longer, probably about a month for the tank to cycle.

Don't worry, everything is fine.
The skimmer won't skim as there is nothing yet to be skimmed out.
Do not use NoPox as it can potentially cause problems with new tanks.

Patience is the key.

 

[Dan_P]

UPDATE DAY 11:

In the end, I followed the guidebook and yesterday night I added 5ml Bactostart and 5ml Nitrobac. After reading another topic regarding Red Sea mature starter kit I haven't added Nopox. (That's the last time the guidebook suggest to add Bactostart and Nitrobac. (At day 10).

Now, on day 11, I did some tests and I got the following:

- Ammonia: 2ppm
- Nitrite: 0.3ppm
- Nitrate: 40ppm
- Dkh: 11 (I am using Red Sea Coral Pro Salt which has high Dkh, so I am not adding their Kh-Coralline Gro buffer as asked in their day-by-day guide to raise the Dkh level)
- Ph: 7.8
- Temp: 78.8 f (26celsius)
- Salinity: 1.023

Am I in the right direction?

Ciao, Gabri

When the right bacteria are present, ammonia will be 0 ppm. The fact that there is 2 ppm ammonia and only 0.3 ppm nitrite indicates the bacteria are not working well yet. The nitrate value is meaningless as long as nitrite is present because it interferes with the nitrate test, giving high false positive results.

You can leave the skimmer off during the aquarium start up because there is no waste to remove and it might be removing some of the bacteria you are adding.

If the ammonia does not go to 0 ppm soon, you can buy a bottle of nitrifying to get things going. Products like Biospira and Fritz Turbo Start are examples of such products. When the bacteria are working, ammonia levels are reduced in 24-48 hours.

 

[Gabbone]

You'll notice that the instructions for the RS Mature kit state that the tank is supposed to be started with live rock and sand.

As you started with dry rock, it will take longer, probably about a month for the tank to cycle.

Don't worry, everything is fine.
The skimmer won't skim as there is nothing yet to be skimmed out.
Do not use NoPox as it can potentially cause problems with new tanks.

Patience is the key.

Thank you very much!

I have a few questions so far:

- In this specific phase, since there's nothing to skim, should I keep the skimmer on to improve the biofilm? Or keep it on during the day and off during the night? Or it's better to keep it 24 hours on even at a lower speed? Or completely off?
- The guide is made on 21 days, and yesterday I was on day 10, where I added the last 5ml of Bactostart and 5ml of Nitrobac. Should I stop adding bactostart/nitrobac right?
- The guide suggested in a few days to do a 5% water change. Should I do that?

Thank you very much!

 

[Gabbone]

When the right bacteria are present, ammonia will be 0 ppm. The fact that there is 2 ppm ammonia and only 0.3 ppm nitrite indicates the bacteria are not working well yet. The nitrate value is meaningless as long as nitrite is present because it interferes with the nitrate test, giving high false positive results.

You can leave the skimmer off during the aquarium start up because there is no waste to remove and it might be removing some of the bacteria you are adding.

If the ammonia does not go to 0 ppm soon, you can buy a bottle of nitrifying to get things going. Products like Biospira and Fritz Turbo Start are examples of such products. When the bacteria are working, ammonia levels are reduced in 24-48 hours.

Oh, I believe I got this spike at 2ppm because yesterday night I added the last dose of Bactostart and Nitrobac and I did the test after 10 hours only. However, yesterday morning Ammonia was 1ppm and Nitrite 0.2

I believe right now I just need to wait 48 hours and see if Ammonia and Nitrite will go down. Am I right?

 

[Gabbone]

Update day 12:

Good morning, I really don't know how to read this. Am I on the right track?....
I also did a small 2-liter water change this morning...

Today's test:

- Ammonia: 2ppm (yesterday was 2ppm too)
- Nitrite: 1ppm (yesterday was 0.3ppm)
- Nitrate: haven't tested. (yesterday was 40ppm)
- Dkh: 11 (I am using Red Sea Coral Pro Salt which has high Dkh, so I am not adding their Kh-Coralline Gro buffer as asked in their day-by-day guide to raise the Dkh level)
- Ph: 7.6
- Temp: 26celsius
- Salinity: 1.024

Help me pleaseeee

 

[gbroadbridge]

Update day 12:

Good morning, I really don't know how to read this. Am I on the right track?....
I also did a small 2-liter water change this morning...

Today's test:

- Ammonia: 2ppm (yesterday was 2ppm too)
- Nitrite: 1ppm (yesterday was 0.3ppm)
- Nitrate: haven't tested. (yesterday was 40ppm)
- Dkh: 11 (I am using Red Sea Coral Pro Salt which has high Dkh, so I am not adding their Kh-Coralline Gro buffer as asked in their day-by-day guide to raise the Dkh level)
- Ph: 7.6
- Temp: 26celsius
- Salinity: 1.024

Help me pleaseeee

Stop testing for a week and then test and post the results

These things take time but will eventually work out fine.
Testing does not make things happen faster.
Only bad things happen fast in reef tanks.

 

[Dan_P]

Update day 12:

Good morning, I really don't know how to read this. Am I on the right track?....
I also did a small 2-liter water change this morning...

Today's test:

- Ammonia: 2ppm (yesterday was 2ppm too)
- Nitrite: 1ppm (yesterday was 0.3ppm)
- Nitrate: haven't tested. (yesterday was 40ppm)
- Dkh: 11 (I am using Red Sea Coral Pro Salt which has high Dkh, so I am not adding their Kh-Coralline Gro buffer as asked in their day-by-day guide to raise the Dkh level)
- Ph: 7.6
- Temp: 26celsius
- Salinity: 1.024

Help me pleaseeee

Forget about measuring nitrate as long as nitrite is present. Stop doing water changes. Stop adding things.

Since the nitrite level is up from last time, that would indicate the bacteria are starting to remove the ammonia. The ammonia test might not be sensitive enough to detect the change. I am beginning wonder about its sensitivity. Your system is developing the nitrogen cycle very slowly. You need to wait for the ammonia level to hit 0 ppm. You can also consider buying and adding nitrifying bacteria that I mention above to speed things up.

 

[Gabbone]

Forget about measuring nitrate as long as nitrite is present. Stop doing water changes. Stop adding things.

Since the nitrite level is up from last time, that would indicate the bacteria are starting to remove the ammonia. The ammonia test might not be sensitive enough to detect the change. I am beginning wonder about its sensitivity. Your system is developing the nitrogen cycle very slowly. You need to wait for the ammonia level to hit 0 ppm. You can also consider buying and adding nitrifying bacteria that I mention above to speed things up.

Just re-tested the ammonia... same result...

Besides that, I still have my Red Sea Nitro Bac. It says: "Concentrated blend of 7 nitrifying and denitrifying bacteria that quickly and effectively stabilize the nitrogen cycle in new and established aquarium."

Can I maybe use this again to speed things up?

 

[Dan_P]

Just re-tested the ammonia... same result...

Besides that, I still have my Red Sea Nitro Bac. It says: "Concentrated blend of 7 nitrifying and denitrifying bacteria that quickly and effectively stabilize the nitrogen cycle in new and established aquarium."

Can I maybe use this again to speed things up?

Sure give it a try. I think this products contains bacteria spores, not live bacteria, and might be slow to start.

@taricha this member is having a very slow start creating a nitrifying bacteria population.

 

[Gabbone]

Sure give it a try. I think this products contains bacteria spores, not live bacteria, and might be slow to start.

@taricha this member is having a very slow start creating a nitrifying bacteria population.

To be sure, I ordered an ammonia hanna checker. I'll get it tomorrow evening. I'll keep you posted!

 

[taricha]

I've never tested or seen that bacterial prouct. But here's what the current scoreboard reads...
Nitrite:
1/12-13 : 0.0 (day 7-8)
1/15 : 0.2 (day 10)
1/16 : 0.3
1/17 : 1.0

Ammonia in this card is not = 2.0 ppm, it should be read as at least 2ppm and likely above test kit quantification....

Just re-tested the ammonia... same result...

So nitrite tells us definitively that nitrification has started - the product showed measurable activity starting around day ~9ish. Not the fastest bottle, but not the slowest either, slower than average speed I'd say.
Ammonia shows no change yet, because the amount of ammonia processed is small and the total amount of ammonia is at/above the level where the test kit can give you a good read. Too dark - you can't see a difference between 2.0 and 2.2 and 2.5.

Anyway, all is good - things are progressing, and this is another example of why I like nitrite tests for cycling. They are sensitive, and give you feedback during that time when you feel like nothing is happening - waiting for that dark green ammonia to change into something lighter.

to the OP, don't be concerned that it doesn't match their printed schedule. There are many reasons a bottle might not be as fast as advertised.

 

[Gabbone]

I've never tested or seen that bacterial prouct. But here's what the current scoreboard reads...
Nitrite:
1/12-13 : 0.0 (day 7-8)
1/15 : 0.2 (day 10)
1/16 : 0.3
1/17 : 1.0

Ammonia in this card is not = 2.0 ppm, it should be read as at least 2ppm and likely above test kit quantification....


So nitrite tells us definitively that nitrification has started - the product showed measurable activity starting around day ~9ish. Not the fastest bottle, but not the slowest either, slower than average speed I'd say.
Ammonia shows no change yet, because the amount of ammonia processed is small and the total amount of ammonia is at/above the level where the test kit can give you a good read. Too dark - you can't see a difference between 2.0 and 2.2 and 2.5.

Anyway, all is good - things are progressing, and this is another example of why I like nitrite tests for cycling. They are sensitive, and give you feedback during that time when you feel like nothing is happening - waiting for that dark green ammonia to change into something lighter.

to the OP, don't be concerned that it doesn't match their printed schedule. There are many reasons a bottle might not be as fast as advertised.

Dear Taricha thank you so much for this information!

I feel more relaxed and confident now.

FYI, this morning's Nitrite test seemed even higher than 1.0 ppm.

However, in a few hours, I am getting Hanna checkers for Ammonia, Nitrite ULR, Nitrate HR, PH and Dkh Alkalinity. Then, I'll post later more accurate results.

Thanks for now!

 

[Gabbone]

UPDATE tests with Hanna Checkers:

DKH: 11.9
PH: 7.9
Ammonia: 0.87ppm (how is that possible?) With a normal colour test, this morning seemed 2 ppm!
Nitrate: 48.4ppm
Nitrite ULR: Seems the nitrite level is higher than 200ppB (0,02ppm) and therefore it doesn't show. I should have taken the LR.

Any thoughts?