Reef Kinetics Lab Discussion

[Jonty]

I thought I would open up a thread to discuss the new Lab unit from Reef Kinetics, I currently have two units in operation. I have a few ongoing issues, but generally, I am very happy with the units. I would like not to have this thread be a fanboy or bash thread but let's keep this about getting the most out of these units and problem-solving when we have issues.

Customer support is quite good from Reef Kinetics but sometimes can be less than timely due to the time difference between USA and Lebanon.

Spare parts are available directly from the ELOS distributor here in the USA so purchasing consumables is easy and fast. Link to consumables HERE

The quality of build is excellent there are a lot of 3D printed parts all of which are solid and well-designed. One pet peeve is the very short power cable to the unit. They really must fix this as you have to have the power unit sit on top of the box or buy an extension cable from Amazon which is a must-do if you buy one of these units. Link for extension cable here HERE

I want to be able to purchase Guiseman, Fauna Marin, or Colombo test kits from someone! This is a point of frustration for me as in the USA these kits are unavailable. I tried ordering some kits from an online retailer in Singapore but they took my money, and two months later no shipment and no response to email inquiries.

I have found the API calcium test reagents to be quite useless as you have to vigorously shake reagent two before testing or it will not yield results so you are left with the Red Sea beta calcium reagent test which is ok but reagents need to be replaced every 14 days so you go through a lot of reagents which defeats the value the lab unit brings.

I do have periodic issues with a no result returned message which is apparently due to network connectivity issues, the unit should be able to store its last result and send to the cloud once the connectivity issue is solved right now if it cannot connect to the cloud server as soon as the test is complete the test result is lost.

I also cannot interpret colors message for some tests I can run the same test 4 times and results are perfect and then the test will give the unable to determine the results message.

 

[blaxsun]

Any pictures of the unit setup in action?

 

[Jonty]

Sure.
bot #1

Bot#2

 

[blaxsun]

Doth my eyes deceive me? You have two fish rooms?! I gather the unit we're discussing is the glowing black hexagon?

 

[Jonty]

yes two fish rooms for two different tanks one SPS one LPS, yes glowing black hexagons is Lab unit

 

[Greg Gdowski]

Following. I wish they had a way to get the data into the hydros. That said, I am still considering options and I like the look of the new unit. Your pictures seems to suggest that a lot of space is needed.

 

[Sean Clark]

Doth my eyes deceive me? You have two fish rooms?! I gather the unit we're discussing is the glowing black hexagon?

But only one digital refractometer? No John Hammond here.

It would be nice if the reef lab had multiple saltwater inputs so you could use one unit to sample multiple tanks.

 

[blaxsun]

yes two fish rooms for two different tanks one SPS one LPS, yes glowing black hexagons is Lab unit

I see they support a lot of Red Sea reagents - but not for some things like nitrates.

 

[Jonty]

In conversation this week they did mention they are working on a bunch of new test kits that will be supported.

 

[Jonty]

I thought I would give an update.

At this point, I am unable to get consistent testing results, so I am unable to use the test results to manage my tanks both units have the same issues.

The tropic Marin Nitrate test consistently gives a result of over 20ppm Hanna shows around 2ppm consistently along with the Redsea test kit, last week the test were matching with reefbot. I don't know if it is reagents or calibration, but it just doesn't work consistently ( I have tried changing reagents).

The week before PO4 was not consistent with Hanna's results. This week it has been spot on with nothing changing it all leaves me scratching my head.

The Sailfert ALk test was fixed so it gives good results, MG is testing well, and calcium is hit or miss. The API Calcium reagents don't work due to their viscosity and the inability to mix them well with the agitator and the Red sea experimental setup is erratic, and the reagent only lasts 14 days before expiring so you throw away a lot of reagents for inaccurate/inconsistent test results.

There are some software issues. If you schedule 2 manual tests in the queue, the second test will always fail and return an error "make sure device is online" and then proceed to run the test again with the same failed result, this ties up the machine for hours and just wastes reagents and lots of RO/DI water.

The unit requires about 3L of RO/DI water a day to run just a couple of tests which is expensive and inconvenient.

With the limited # of test kits available in the USA due to the lack of Fauna Marin and Colombo test kits, you are limited in what you can test. I have a Trident already and the idea of running PO4, Nitrate, Iodine, and maybe Fe test was appealing, but I am down to PO4 and NO3 and these are not reliable enough to be of use for day-to-day management.

I know the Reefbot people are working of software solutions all the time and hopefully these issues will be resolved over time.

I have gone through over a $300 worth of reagents to date.

 

[BiCoastal]

Thanks for all the updates @Jonty. I just ordered mine. It was an impulse buy I will be following your updates as I try to set the unit up (once I receive it). I was about to buy a trident and then thought I should give this a try as getting alk, calcium, mag, nitrate and phosphate in one device is rather appealing. We will see what the reality ends up being

 

[Jonty]

I have been able to purchase the Iodine kits so do run Iodine as well now

 

[reefie]

Bumping this thread.

Anyone been having issues with results lately or its just me? I’m not getting results from Red Sea PO4, Alk, Mag, or API Calcium tests on Reefbot Lab although manual tests are within range.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I am trying to work with them for help - but am losing hope quickly.

I just purchased new test kits to compare

Starting with ALK because it is a simple single reagent titration.

Brand New API KH test kit.
Manual dropper = 11 drops.
KH Director reports 10.8 so both are close
RedSea Pro manual test ~9 or so (hard for me to tell exactly)
API in ReefBot reports 4
RedSea in Reefbot reports 5, 7 and a bunch of invalid results.

Several (at least 4) people have reached out to me on facebook frustrated with the same basic issue and no resolution.

I have no idea if they shipped these knowing there were issues or if we got a batch of duds, but there is something defiantly wrong and I am being as patient as I can.

 

[reefie]

It’s a trial and error using the Refbot Lab but is pretty close once its working as expected. Running the DosingSyringeCAL, SamplingSyringeCAL, Test, and RO chamber calibration helps.

I think I figured out my issue. I had an air gap in my dosing syringe, so replaced it and cleaned the test chambers. I ran Red Sea All, Mag, and Fauna Marin Po4 tests and the test results matched my manual testing.

Unfortunately, Red Sea Po4 was still off compared to my Hanna and Fauna Marin. I think I’m going to toss the Red Sea Po4 test.

 

[BeanAnimal]

It’s a trial and error using the Refbot Lab but is pretty close once its working as expected. Running the DosingSyringeCAL, SamplingSyringeCAL, Test, and RO chamber calibration helps.

I think I figured out my issue. I had an air gap in my dosing syringe, so replaced it and cleaned the test chambers. I ran Red Sea All, Mag, and Fauna Marin Po4 tests and the test results matched my manual testing.

Unfortunately, Red Sea Po4 was still off compared to my Hanna and Fauna Marin. I think I’m going to toss the Red Sea Po4 test.

Thank you for the update.

There will always be an air gap because the needle and neck of the syringe have air in them at the beginning of the stroke.

I tried to calibrate the dosing chamber, but it took 10 tries. It 'hunted' but never settled on 10.

I am not sure what the overflow point is, but anything above 10 should work. The water is drawn from the chamber into the syringe then the chamber is flushed and filled by the calibrated syringe. That said, I am not sure if a 10ml sample is drawn from two fillings of the chamber or one, I would assume it has to be two because a 10ml sample cant be drawn from 10ml pool unless the needle were touch the bottom.... So if that is the case, then the volume (even less than 10) would work as long as air is not sucked into the syringe. Ergo, I don't get what calibrating the sample chamber has to do with anything as long as it is somewhere in the 10 neighborhood.

The mechanics and operating principle of this device are extremely simple, I am not sure where the error is being introduced. I am sure reagent quality and differences in batches don't help, as the colorimeter is looking for very specific colors. If the reagent is a bit off, then the colorimeter will be off too, but should be off by the same amount for consecutive tests... and there is the problem. I can't even get stable repeatability.

 

[reefie]

Well there will always be an air gap because the needle and neck of the syringe have air in them at the beginning of the stroke.

I tried to calibrate the dosing chamber, but it took 10 tries. It 'hunted' but never settled on 10.

I am not sure what the overflow point is, but anything above 10 should work. The water is drawn from the chamber into the syringe then the chamber is flushed and filled by the calibrated syringe. That said, I am not sure if a 10ml sample is drawn from two fillings of the chamber or one, I would assume it has to be two because a 10ml sample cant be drawn from 10ml pool unless the needle were touch the bottom.... So if that is the case, then the volume (even less than 10) would work as long as air is not sucked into the syringe. Ergo, I don't get what calibrating the sample chamber has to do with anything as long as it is somewhere in the 10 neighborhood.

The air gap was half the syringe. Not sure why, maybe something with the needle connector.

 

[BeanAnimal]

The air gap was half the syringe. Not sure why, maybe something with the needle connector.

These are extremely tiny gauge needles. Some of these reagents are thicker than water, some thinner. In any case, the force required to draw the plunger up is very significant and the suction created is rather significant too.

I can certainly see the possibility of air leaking past the Luer lock or even a plunger seal. I understand why they chose the syringe method for both cost and simplicity. That said, insulin syringes were intended to be cheap single use syringes used with a larger gauge needle that what is being used here (hence the 60 test change recommendation).

I guess it is something we need to keep an eye on during use and esp when we replace syringes. Maybe a tiny dab of silicone grease on the male mating surface, not on the female end (needle side) or it will contaminate the reagent.

 

[Bruceh]

I am trying to work with them for help - but am losing hope quickly.

I just purchased new test kits to compare

Starting with ALK because it is a simple single reagent titration.

Brand New API KH test kit.
Manual dropper = 11 drops.
KH Director reports 10.8 so both are close
RedSea Pro manual test ~9 or so (hard for me to tell exactly)
API in ReefBot reports 4
RedSea in Reefbot reports 5, 7 and a bunch of invalid results.

Several (at least 4) people have reached out to me on facebook frustrated with the same basic issue and no resolution.

I have no idea if they shipped these knowing there were issues or if we got a batch of duds, but there is something defiantly wrong and I am being as patient as I can.

I have similar problem, tried a bunch of test kits with differant issues:
Red sea MG working decently vs red sea manual test,
red sea calcium at first agreed with manual test 500 ppm but low results after a week or 2, ie 300 vs 500 w/ manual test
api nitrate at first got 3 ppm which compared favorably with salífert manual test but this degenerated to 0 ppm over a couple weeks vs 7 ppm salífert manual test
Alkalinity I have 2 tests. Red sea and salífert.. Salífert initially made sense then degenerated red sea gave me a lower result vs salífert manual ie 5.9 vs 8.3 dkh. I tested my water at 90% concentration and got a corresponding reduction in red sea to 5.3 so maybe just need a correction factor, it would not read at lower concentrations ie 75%
I will try other kits.

 

[Bruceh]

[QUOTE="reefie, post: 11640507, member: 178886"] Bumping this thread. Anyone been having issues with results lately or its just me? I’m not getting results from Red Sea PO4, Alk, Mag, or API Calcium tests on Reefbot Lab although manual tests are within range. [/QUOTE] Yes.. I just posted a message on this thread