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Be careful with that Shine!
Wait a minute, I have to make my own shine to do this? Count me in! Lol.
Reef moonshiners program
- Thread starter cedwards04
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Wait a minute, I have to make my own shine to do this? Count me in! Lol.
Tjm23slo
Active Member
Take a peek at post #13. It’s back of the napkin. It all depends on your tank size, how far out of balance it is, but it would be a great way to start a tank.
For me, I started a mess and have been coming around to being pure Shiner. I took some short cuts and well I made the trip bumpier than needed. It’s chemistry and math, no magic elixir for lighting, flow or general husbandry.
You will need to make your own choice on break even points. The measurements are ml/100 gallons. This was originally designed for larger systems as more cost effective than water changes to replenish elements.
The principles are similar to Triton, where water chemistry is important. Shiners consider elements like Fluoride and Rubidium to be important elements and the elements levels are higher than sea water. There is no forced import/export method, Brightwell major elements are suggested based on consistency of product and The head Shiners measurements.
There is a virtual head moonshiner advice excel spreadsheet to help teach you what you might be seeing based on the levels of your elements.
The most costly part after the initial load of elements is the ATI tests based on your frequency. Initially every 2 weeks until you see your close to levels. Then monthly then based on your schedule maybe quarterly.
If your an already successful reefer without water changes, this might help make the corals pop with color, growth etc.
Picking the Head Shiners head on issues I have has been great. Reading the comments in the group very helpful. Then understanding the product picks and why one is better than another has been great. Carbon, GFO substitutes and I’m even experimenting with a vermitid snail removal elixir. All gleaned from the head shiner and the community. Why they may be happening and how to stop TN issues. How to feed and replenish good bacteria.
To date, no mean aggressive know it alls in the community. It’s a large mentor ship program. The cost of success is buying the elements from the head shiner, and parking your ego at the door before entering the Shine mill. We all think we can do it differently and it’s possible, but in the end you will either find shine religion for you or move on taking loads of knowledge with you.
Enjoy the high you get from Reef Moonshine
cedwards04
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I decided to take the plunge. I'm currently 5 days into the program. Some of my parameters were pretty far out of whack and are taking several days of dosing to correct.
To the person who asked about start up costs, that depends. If you want to pre purchase everything up front, it's around $280 for the moonshiner products. There are some non moonshiner products that are recommended (titan vanadium, brightwell alk/ca, sea chem iodine). That being said, you can send in an icp and wait for your results before ordering, this way you only order what you need. Another way to lower initial start up cost is to do like I did and find a reefing friend to split it with. The moonshiner bottles are 500ml and are enough product to last a very long time. For example, the daily elements are very small doses. I am dosing just a few drops a day (roughly 0.03ml/drop) in my 100g tank.
To the person who asked about start up costs, that depends. If you want to pre purchase everything up front, it's around $280 for the moonshiner products. There are some non moonshiner products that are recommended (titan vanadium, brightwell alk/ca, sea chem iodine). That being said, you can send in an icp and wait for your results before ordering, this way you only order what you need. Another way to lower initial start up cost is to do like I did and find a reefing friend to split it with. The moonshiner bottles are 500ml and are enough product to last a very long time. For example, the daily elements are very small doses. I am dosing just a few drops a day (roughly 0.03ml/drop) in my 100g tank.
ReeferSteve
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Thank you for this.
Whasmack
Active Member
I run a 300g total system (180g + 120g) with heavy SPS and some LPS.
I've been running Moonshiners since September 2019. And that was the last time I've done a water change.
I'm currently at triple the daily starting elements, and things look great. And they grow great too! I can't frag my Red Planet fast enough. My miami hurricane chalice has this awesome metallic shimmer to it; wish I could capture it with a camera.
Since I started dosing Vanadium daily - I've seen a huge difference in SPS response; esp. with polyp extension.
To me - this system makes great sense if you run a larger system & the cost of massive water changes is too much. I have a whiteboard of all the elements I dose & it can look ridiculous - like I feel it's almost like Zeovit on crack - but you actually know what you're dosing & have control with the ICP feedback.
I dose - Iron, Chromium, Cobalt, Manganese, Iodide, Vanadium, Potassium Daily. Nickel, strontium, zinc weekly. Boron, Barium, Bromine, Rubidium monthly.
I highly recommend his system!
I've been running Moonshiners since September 2019. And that was the last time I've done a water change.
I'm currently at triple the daily starting elements, and things look great. And they grow great too! I can't frag my Red Planet fast enough. My miami hurricane chalice has this awesome metallic shimmer to it; wish I could capture it with a camera.
Since I started dosing Vanadium daily - I've seen a huge difference in SPS response; esp. with polyp extension.
To me - this system makes great sense if you run a larger system & the cost of massive water changes is too much. I have a whiteboard of all the elements I dose & it can look ridiculous - like I feel it's almost like Zeovit on crack - but you actually know what you're dosing & have control with the ICP feedback.
I dose - Iron, Chromium, Cobalt, Manganese, Iodide, Vanadium, Potassium Daily. Nickel, strontium, zinc weekly. Boron, Barium, Bromine, Rubidium monthly.
I highly recommend his system!
Just add back any missing ICP elements. That simple.
cedwards04
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I've been on it now since February. My coral have never looked healthier. I've learned a ton about what is needed for coral health. I'll also note that before starting the program, things were dying, and quickly. All of my sps rtn'd, most of my lps bailed out. I couldn't figure out what was going on. I did an icp test and everyone I talked to said things looked fine and water wasn't my issue. Then I ran across andré, and the moonshiner method. After showing andré my icp results, he informed me of all the issues with my water contributing to my coral deaths. After getting my water back on track, I am happy to say that things look 100x's better. I have happy and healthy sps and lps again. André really knows his stuff.
All of that being said, I dont know that I would run a tank without using this method again, even a nano.
Tjm23slo
Active Member
Yes, but it also depends on your budget and effort level. What is the size of your nano? Do you do water changes? how much and often?. How much you want to monitor and spend vs Water changes?
Many think that 200G is where you start. I'm at 65G Some one else is 40G. Its possible, but up front may be spendy.
Laith
Well-Known Member
Curious as to how this differs from the Triton method? Sounds similar: no water changes, ICP testing and adjusting elements individually... is it just a cost difference?
Or the fact that Rubidium is dosed?
Or the fact that Rubidium is dosed?
Tjm23slo
Active Member
My opinion is that Triton has system requirements/recommendations on physical setup turn over ratio, % dedicated to algae sump, etc . Which can be used with RM or not.
Triton has Core7 plus other methods for major 3 plus it includes trace elements. RM recommends major 3 void of other elements and you adjust based on ICP tests.
RM has higher target levels. Considers rubidium and fluorine important. Seems to put more emphasis on Barium and iodine especially Around SPS and TN issues.
open on ratios Recommends what is thought to be most consistent manufacturing of elements example vanadium is Tritons, iodine Seachem.
Recommendations in calculator allows for any ICP testing. But 2 (ATI and Triton) come more highly recommended. With ATI topping based on Flourine and RoDi testing in each kit
very good support through facebook
Risk factors; he’s a one family show with a cult following. Shipping of elements outside the us
Fishinwall
Well-Known Member
I have a 65gal. Top end of the nanos.
I have a 60 gallon cube and my main setup. Main setup consists of a 250 gallon, a 130 gallon, a 150 gallon sump and a couple of 40 breeders with one of them setup as a RDSB and cryptic zone. I’ve had all types of issues. I tried the Triton method and crashed one of my previous systems. I decided to sip some moonshine and try it out on my 60 cube first. Waiting for my order from Andre and the other items to arrive. Based on some of the comments here and reading through the FB group, I feel positive about this method. I’ll report back once I get started.
It's worth it!
I’m looking forward to trying it. When I had high tech FW planted tanks I would dose a number of fertilizers but we never had a way of knowing what was in the water. Being able to test and dose based on numbers is just so logical. When I was doing the Triton method I was frustrated that I was spending all this money on their 4 bottles and then the test results would come back and I was low on so many other elements. It was frustrating and expensive and in the end I crashed my system anyway.
minus9
5000 Club Member
I really want to try this method, any issues with starting with Triton ICP? Unique Corals is only 15 minutes from me, so getting results back in a day or two can get me started fairly quickly, but I will probably use ATI once I get started.
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