Reef Moonshiners V All for Reef

[cba191]

Is there a Balling for Dummies thread to give idiots like me an idea?

Are you wanting to literally know about two/three part systems such as Balling? That’s not what this thread is about.

But I discuss two part systems here:

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/how-a...-calcium-system-works-and-why-it-matters.958/

Thank you! I know thread is more about moonshine, but i already know i don't want to go that route, but i didnt want to hijack the thread with a million questions.

 

[FishLvR]

I am going to assume natural 6dkh is fine because the sheer volume. In a small aquarium, hell 1,000 gallons next to the ocean, 6dkh would be hell.

I don’t see how volume matters. A coral cannot know what is happening 5 feet away. All it knows is what is in the water touching it. :)

Less fluctuations more replenishment and so on. The coral doesn't need to know. It just is.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Thank you! I know thread is more about moonshine, but i already know i don't want to go that route, but i didnt want to hijack the thread with a million questions.

It’s a fine plan to start a new thread if you want. :)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Less fluctuations more replenishment and so on. The coral doesn't need to know. It just is.

Perhaps less fluctuations, but folks doing bolus dosing don’t seem to find that once a day dosing leads to less desirable coral growth.

 

[FishLvR]

Is there a Balling for Dummies thread to give idiots like me an idea?

Are you wanting to literally know about two/three part systems such as Balling? That’s not what this thread is about.

But I discuss two part systems here:

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/how-a...-calcium-system-works-and-why-it-matters.958/

Thank you! I know thread is more about moonshine, but i already know i don't want to go that route, but i didnt want to hijack the thread with a million questions.

Brs and YouTube but the gist is each part A, B and C, C being salt free uhm salt, keeps an ionic balance. Which in my humble opinion is easier than two part. I noticed since making the switch things fell into a equilibrium that I have easily maintained.

 

[FishLvR]

Perhaps less fluctuations, but folks doing bolus dosing don’t seem to find that once a day dosing leads to less desirable coral growth.

I think my issue might be too big of water changes and speaking of Bolus, my undersized Skimmer. I really need a bigger one. Bolus is balling is it not with giant skimmers?

Nevermind they have a handbook on the website that reads better than moonshiners. LOL!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Brs and YouTube but the gist is each part A, B and C, C being salt free uhm salt, keeps an ionic balance. Which in my humble opinion is easier than two part

I cannot understand what that last sentence is saying is easier than a two part.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I think my issue might be too big of water changes and speaking of Bolus, my undersized Skimmer. I really need a bigger one. Bolus is balling is it not with giant skimmers?

I’ve not seen that skimmers are part of the Fauna Marin Bolus plan, but they do use sodium bicarbonate and calcium chloride.

 

[FishLvR]

Because with two part I constantly had either alkalinity out of whack or calcium. I felt like I would then have to dose unequal parts of each to get back to stasis. Since starting Balling 8 months ago I have not had to bungle anything. Dose equal parts, simple.

 

[FishLvR]

I’ve not seen that skimmers are part of the Fauna Marin Bolus plan, but they do use sodium bicarbonate and calcium chloride.

Dude on youtube a few years ago had a MASSIVE skimmer on his Bolus run tank. Let me speed read this handbook here. It just says, "A powerful well maintained protein skimmer that is sized appropriately for the reef tank." Oh and man they want some serious PAR here, they also recommend no ramp and 11 hours photoperiod at said par. So the goal here is 8.2 before lights on, well the refugium seems to have that handled so success. This is a good read glad I found it. Oh and so I should be dosing right before lights on all three. I am going to do that too. Yeah it's on Fauna Marin Reef Power section. 24 ish pages.

Balling lite. Yeah there is too much out here. **Sigh**

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Because with two part I constantly had either alkalinity out of whack or calcium. I felt like I would then have to dose unequal parts of each to get back to stasis. Since starting Balling 8 months ago I have not had to bungle anything. Dose equal parts,

Balling is a 2/3 part.

Other two parts are also designed for equal parts dosing.

 

[FishLvR]

Because with two part I constantly had either alkalinity out of whack or calcium. I felt like I would then have to dose unequal parts of each to get back to stasis. Since starting Balling 8 months ago I have not had to bungle anything. Dose equal parts,

Balling is a 2/3 part.

Other two parts are also designed for equal parts dosing.

I'm aware of that. My experience is they never stayed in equilibrium. I find balling does.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I'm aware of that. My experience is they never stayed in equilibrium. I find balling does.

So you mean the specific tropic Marin Brand of two part stays in balance better than others? Which others? Some are not properly designed for 1:1 dosing.

 

[FishLvR]

I'm aware of that. My experience is they never stayed in equilibrium. I find balling does.

So you mean the specific tropic Marin Brand of two part stays in balance better than others? Which others? Some are not properly designed for 1:1 dosing.

Oh randy. I think I'm done entertaining you.

 

[Hans-Werner]

Because with two part I constantly had either alkalinity out of whack or calcium. I felt like I would then have to dose unequal parts of each to get back to stasis. Since starting Balling 8 months ago I have not had to bungle anything. Dose equal parts, simple.

Maybe I know what you mean. There are "Balling" methods around which recommend to dose "according to demand" which means, measure calcium and alkalinity and dose accordingly. The result is, that you always end up with imbalanced additions and it feels like a roller coaster and you always have to correct the one or the other.

In my eyes the stoichiometric approach always was easier. You add a ratio that is close to the stoichiometric consumption of calcium and bicarbonate (or a mix with carbonate or hydroxide) in calcium carbonate formation. Then correct for the little deviation from the stoichiometric ratio that may occur, more or less, depending from tank.

 

[Koty]

Maybe I know what you mean. There are "Balling" methods around which recommend to dose "according to demand" which means, measure calcium and alkalinity and dose accordingly. The result is, that you always end up with imbalanced additions and it feels like a roller coaster and you always have to correct the one or the other.

In my eyes the stoichiometric approach always was easier. You add a ratio that is close to the stoichiometric consumption of calcium and bicarbonate (or a mix with carbonate or hydroxide) in calcium carbonate formation. Then correct for the little deviation from the stoichiometric ratio that may occur, more or less, depending from tank.

I have been dosing for close to 4 years. At a certain point in time, my Ca reached about 500 ppm, and so I adjusted the ratios to slowly get the Ca back to normal. Below are my current volumes. Tomorrow I'm sending samples for ICP. The results will be a good test of my no-water-change method. Do I have seawater or a weird mix of dissolved minerals?

 

[iman7045]

I'm aware of that. My experience is they never stayed in equilibrium. I find balling does.

Any 2 part dosing will eventually go out of equilibrium doesn’t matter which one you use and you have to adjust, every tank is different and coral load/ type of coral tends to play a role i personally see it a bit more in my sps dominated tank then you would see in tank with lps/soft coral

 

[Ghostbuster]

I rely on expert opinions like the Royal Society of Chemistry, which they base on a full understanding of all published studies of chemicals. They state that

Rubidium has no known biological role and is non-toxic. However, because of its chemical similarity to potassium we absorb it from our food, and the average person has stores of about half a gram.

It is slightly radioactive and so has been used to locate brain tumours, as it collects in tumours but not in normal tissue.

https://periodic-table.rsc.org/element/37/rubidium
I know the hobby claims, made by folks selling things like barium and rubidium, but nowhere is there any supporting evidence for these claims.

I for one do not think it very likely that someone dosing chemicals to their home reef tank has discovered an actual biological role for rubidium. If they have, they should surely let the Nobel Prize committee know of this ground breaking discovery.

Your comment here has totally won me over to not worry about Rb. I was up late wondering why it wasn’t tested on my Triton ICPs, then it wasn’t added to my Captiv8 solution, even though they had a recommended daily dose listed on their spreadsheets. Further complicating my thoughts, it’s a listed ingredient on the calcium component of my ESV B-Ionic 2-part bottle (along with Li, which I always have way too much). So, I read your article on what elements to dose, then ended up here, and Eureka!
Ps., why would ESV put Li in their 2-part solution, that stuff is like plastic, it’s in everything already, lol

 

[rishma]

Since this thread popped up I’ll share some recent data. Interested in thoughts. The table below is an Oceamo ICP-MS, the Oceamo ideal value ranges, the NSW concentrations and comments from @Randy Holmes-Farley on thread on which trace to dose.

The most interesting ones for me are Fluoride, chromium, and selenium which are around half the concentration found in NSW.

I have no known issues to solve in my tank so I’m not likely to put effort into dosing these separately but it does make me wonder more about their effects. Chromium and selenium are indicated as important biologically but I don’t think I’d know the symptom of having insufficient concentration.

This tank is long term AFR dosing.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Your comment here has totally won me over to not worry about Rb. I was up late wondering why it wasn’t tested on my Triton ICPs, then it wasn’t added to my Captiv8 solution, even though they had a recommended daily dose listed on their spreadsheets. Further complicating my thoughts, it’s a listed ingredient on the calcium component of my ESV B-Ionic 2-part bottle (along with Li, which I always have way too much). So, I read your article on what elements to dose, then ended up here, and Eureka!
Ps., why would ESV put Li in their 2-part solution, that stuff is like plastic, it’s in everything already, lol

I cannot speak for others motives with any certainty, but I suspect many companies put things like lithium in a two part to allow making the claim that it leaves a seawater residue when the alk and calcium are used up, rather than having to make the more complicated case to reefers that they leave out some things, but that those are not needed anyway.