refugium/sump

mickeysreef <*))))< · Mar 15, 2020

so im trying to design a sump/refugium. wondering if anyone has any ideas. i'll start with my last one. it was just a 60 long i built with refugium on one end and skimmer on the other end. chamber next to refugium the was return and chamber between skimmer and return was just bricks. drain was in the skimmer chamber and i just rigged a pump from bricks to refugium.

i felt like this sump was just way too huge and i didnt like the refugium pouring into the return, i also didnt use any mechanical and so it was just a big mess everywhere that i had to give a good cleaning to at least once a month. i had my bricks wrapped in multiple large fine mesh laundry bags so they never clogged.

i wanted to design something different for my new set up. ive got this 55 long that i can use for the sump but i really dont want to have an all in one unit again, want to try high flow refugium and low flow sump or high flow sump with low flow zones in the sump,. im thinking of using a 20 long for skimmer, bricks, and return. im hoping to use a 10 gallon as a separate refugium, but i dont want to drill them together. my plan is to build a shelf so the 10 sits higher than the 20 and somehow using the property of gravity/pressure to get the water to flow into the 20. maybe like a special shelf i can build on the rim of the 10 (internal or external).

i'd like to have some accessible mechanical to keep things neat this time. ive seen vertically stacked mesh pads that look interesting. i know the rage is socks

if it matters, the tank is a 210 w dual weirs. i was planning on using all 4 holes for drains and returns over the rear,

Kodski · Mar 15, 2020

I feel that you're trying to over complicate something simple. Stick with the 55 gallon and keep everything in one. Less points of failure in terms of places that if can leak as well as being less likely to overflow your sump during a system shut off. You'll also have more overall water volume.

I'd say just use a standard sump setup. Drain lines go into filter socks or some kind of mechanical filtration. Bubble trap into skimmer section, then flows into your refugium. If you're worried about macro algea getting into the return section, space the baffles out so that you can run a rough sponge to catch anything trying to make it to the return section. If you want your refugium to have lower flow, then simply switch the refugium and return section. Then run a manifold off your return pump with a gate valve to adjust the flow through your refugium and drain it back into the return pump section.

I'm not sure why you'd want to run more flow through your refugium than your sump, I see no benefits to this. My advice is to stick to whats been tried and proven to work on countless tanks. Triton method recommends 10x DT volume flow through your sump and refugium together. So if thats what their research found to be the best method then there isn't any reason you can't run the same flow through your sump as your refugium even if it isn't 10x DT volume. Again, just the simple idea of keeping everything simple and not trying to make it more complicated than need be.

mickeysreef <*))))< · Mar 17, 2020

Kodski said:
I feel that you're trying to over complicate something simple. Stick with the 55 gallon and keep everything in one. Less points of failure in terms of places that if can leak as well as being less likely to overflow your sump during a system shut off. You'll also have more overall water volume.

I'd say just use a standard sump setup. Drain lines go into filter socks or some kind of mechanical filtration. Bubble trap into skimmer section, then flows into your refugium. If you're worried about macro algea getting into the return section, space the baffles out so that you can run a rough sponge to catch anything trying to make it to the return section. If you want your refugium to have lower flow, then simply switch the refugium and return section. Then run a manifold off your return pump with a gate valve to adjust the flow through your refugium and drain it back into the return pump section.

I'm not sure why you'd want to run more flow through your refugium than your sump, I see no benefits to this. My advice is to stick to whats been tried and proven to work on countless tanks. Triton method recommends 10x DT volume flow through your sump and refugium together. So if thats what their research found to be the best method then there isn't any reason you can't run the same flow through your sump as your refugium even if it isn't 10x DT volume. Again, just the simple idea of keeping everything simple and not trying to make it more complicated than need be.

I might just try separate sump/refugium and dual return pumps, can't figure out a way to get the refugium to drain into the sump and maybe it shouldn't.

reasons I think they should be separate:

1. different flow rates. I have had to adjust my flow rate in the refugium to stop die off. this flow rate might not be optimal for my sump, bricks or skimmer

2. I would like to black out my refugium from the outside without water touching paint.

3. allows me to clean/disconnect/stop either sump or refugium independently.

4. entire sump is more likely to need cleaning if refugium is directly connected. (no mechanical on refugium)

5. allows me to remove completely or upgrade to larger (longer/taller) refugium.

6. allows me to use a shorter 20g tank (30 inches) for sump and turn 10 g (10.5 wide) refugium making more room under cabinet

R.Weller · Apr 14, 2020

What did you decide on this?

I stared with the refugium in my sump & eventually 'cut' it out & replaced with a dedicated tank. The new refug is located above the sump & a lower-flow pump moves water from the intake chamber (no socks) to an algae scrubber providing all the necessary flow. Water from the refug then drains back into the return chamber.

mickeysreef <*))))< · Apr 14, 2020

my goal with the refugium was to control nitrates. my original idea was to have a 20L sump and seperate refugium, but I nixxed the refugium and went with a 40 breeder sump. I think I could have fit my skimmer and bricks in the 20 long but it would have been really tight.

so the problem I was going to run into with 2 sumps (not connected or closed) was flooding as the return pumps would have to be exactly equal and that's just an impossibility.

I considered a chaeto reactor, algae scrubber and sulfur denitrator as alternatives to the refugium but I shied away from the chaeto reactor and algae scrubber because I was worried about the cleaning in my cabinet. just seems like I could end up wetting electrical points or trailing water out of the sump. I also shied away from the sulfur denitrator based on reviews. seems like they aren't that easily dialed in.

finally I decided to give carbon dosing a chance because I already have the brightwell no3 brick and a 10lb bag or pumice. but I haven't bought a doser yet. I could also do a reactor with pumice or some bio-media if I can't create a low flow area.

R.Weller · Apr 14, 2020

Mickey13 said:
my goal with the refugium was to control nitrates. my original idea was to have a 20L sump and seperate refugium, but I nixxed the refugium and went with a 40 breeder sump. I think I could have fit my skimmer and bricks in the 20 long but it would have been really tight.

so the problem I was going to run into with 2 sumps (not connected or closed) was flooding as the return pumps would have to be exactly equal and that's just an impossibility.

I considered a chaeto reactor, algae scrubber and sulfur denitrator as alternatives to the refugium but I shied away from the chaeto reactor and algae scrubber because I was worried about the cleaning in my cabinet. just seems like I could end up wetting electrical points or trailing water out of the sump. I also shied away from the sulfur denitrator based on reviews. seems like they aren't that easily dialed in.

finally I decided to give carbon dosing a chance because I already have the brightwell no3 brick and a 10lb bag or pumice. but I haven't bought a doser yet. I could also do a reactor with pumice or some bio-media if I can't create a low flow area.

I completely understand the fight with nitrates. If the sound doesn't bother you, I would also consider an ATS over the return chamber in your sump. You can build it suit your space & tee off your return line using a block valve to limit the flow over the Waterfall.

For what it's worth, it's a method that worked for our system. If evaporation is an issue for you, you'd probably want to use another method.

DIY Waterfall ATS - 1 yr later

There are several great DIY algae turf scrubbers here on the forum, so I figured I would share what has worked for our system. An important note at the start...we have a large system that is lightly stocked, but I do expect this to scale as the system matures. Our sump is located behind the...

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