EmdeReef
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I think some basic education on ich and fish parasites is warranted here before making statements that are simple uninformed. At the minimum please make sure to indicate you are stating your opinion...
Removing Acanthurus tangs from my order? Ich management
- Thread starter Miami Reef
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I think some basic education on ich and fish parasites is warranted here before making statements that are simple uninformed. At the minimum please make sure to indicate you are stating your opinion...
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I am newish to saltwater just over a year, ive kept freshwater fish for around 25 years, thats not really important though. Ich has a clear lifespan that has been documented in several research papers, I live in the middle of Pennsylvania, so I'm pretty sure aerosol transmission isn'tt a concern. I'm not saying that its easy by any means, trust me i know Qt protocols can be screwed up, but ich is a parasite, its not a condition it can 100% be kept out of a tank
@Miami Reef
In your situation using NSW, already have a QT tank and a three-week preparation period I would suggest like follow.
Set up the QT. Put a small internal foam filter in the DT´s sump. Prepare the QT water with 50% new mixed and 50% water from the DT. At least one more hiding place than total number of fishes. 1 or 2 days before the arrival of the new fish – move the internal foam filter into the QT and do a 10 % WC from the DT. Ask the supplier about the salinity at delivery – adjust you QT to that. Do not add any medication into the water of QT.
However be sure you have proper medication on hand – if…….
When you get the fish – take down the light in the receiving room as much as possible. Shout of the light in the QT
If your transport time is more than 24 hours or around that – adjust your pH in the QT to around 7 with help of bubbling some CO2 into the water (you can do that with carbonated water too – but to pH 7 or just below). When fish arrive – inspect them – if any one show issues – just take a bucket of water from your QT (with pH around 7), open the bag and directly lift over the fish to the bucket – cover the bucket and let it be for a while. If the fishes (or the rest of them) look fine – just check that the temperature not differ to much (3-4 degree C is acceptable) – if it differs to much – let the bags float in the QT for 10 – 15 minutes. Open the bags – take the fish out and put it directly into the QT with lower pH – try to not have any of the water in your bags coming into your QT water – some drops – nema problema – but as less as possible. After all fish are int the QT just let the circulation, skimmer and so on work – the excess CO2 will leave the QT and pH slowly rise to your normal levels
Now the hardest part - try to avoid stirring on your new fish and do not use any flashlight in order to see how they looks like. The inspection should be in the bags – after they have left the bags and into the DT – let them calm down to the next morning.
Next morning inspect if anything looks good – if it does look good – leave it and just observe for a while. Try to have them to eat asap, use frozen food. Very good starting food is – IMO – black mosquito larvae, cyclops, adult artemia and sometimes even blood worms for very tricky fish. However, blood worms should only be used in the start. After a while you can give them the food you prefer. Some people soak the food in garlic – I do not,
Run this inspecting QT as long as you feel sure that these fish do not have anything with them. If the show signs of serve diseases – treat immediately with proper medication.
During this period of observing – do your WC int the QT with help of your DT water – first in low quantities but in the end (1 or 2 days before the introduction in the DT) it should be more or less the same water. The reason for this is mainly vaccination and an option to treat if they can´t stand the new fauna of microorganisms) but IMO this will also lead to lesser aggression when they are introduced into the DT. My very personal opinion is that it is the smell that differ. This is a trick I have used many times with very aggressive cichlids like Tropheus and mbunas
Sincerely Lasse
In your situation using NSW, already have a QT tank and a three-week preparation period I would suggest like follow.
Set up the QT. Put a small internal foam filter in the DT´s sump. Prepare the QT water with 50% new mixed and 50% water from the DT. At least one more hiding place than total number of fishes. 1 or 2 days before the arrival of the new fish – move the internal foam filter into the QT and do a 10 % WC from the DT. Ask the supplier about the salinity at delivery – adjust you QT to that. Do not add any medication into the water of QT.
However be sure you have proper medication on hand – if…….
When you get the fish – take down the light in the receiving room as much as possible. Shout of the light in the QT
If your transport time is more than 24 hours or around that – adjust your pH in the QT to around 7 with help of bubbling some CO2 into the water (you can do that with carbonated water too – but to pH 7 or just below). When fish arrive – inspect them – if any one show issues – just take a bucket of water from your QT (with pH around 7), open the bag and directly lift over the fish to the bucket – cover the bucket and let it be for a while. If the fishes (or the rest of them) look fine – just check that the temperature not differ to much (3-4 degree C is acceptable) – if it differs to much – let the bags float in the QT for 10 – 15 minutes. Open the bags – take the fish out and put it directly into the QT with lower pH – try to not have any of the water in your bags coming into your QT water – some drops – nema problema – but as less as possible. After all fish are int the QT just let the circulation, skimmer and so on work – the excess CO2 will leave the QT and pH slowly rise to your normal levels
Now the hardest part - try to avoid stirring on your new fish and do not use any flashlight in order to see how they looks like. The inspection should be in the bags – after they have left the bags and into the DT – let them calm down to the next morning.
Next morning inspect if anything looks good – if it does look good – leave it and just observe for a while. Try to have them to eat asap, use frozen food. Very good starting food is – IMO – black mosquito larvae, cyclops, adult artemia and sometimes even blood worms for very tricky fish. However, blood worms should only be used in the start. After a while you can give them the food you prefer. Some people soak the food in garlic – I do not,
Run this inspecting QT as long as you feel sure that these fish do not have anything with them. If the show signs of serve diseases – treat immediately with proper medication.
During this period of observing – do your WC int the QT with help of your DT water – first in low quantities but in the end (1 or 2 days before the introduction in the DT) it should be more or less the same water. The reason for this is mainly vaccination and an option to treat if they can´t stand the new fauna of microorganisms) but IMO this will also lead to lesser aggression when they are introduced into the DT. My very personal opinion is that it is the smell that differ. This is a trick I have used many times with very aggressive cichlids like Tropheus and mbunas
Sincerely Lasse
Last edited:
HotRocks
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I'm sorry you are mistaken. My system has been disrupted on more than one occasion.
Powerhead failures.
Heater failures.
Power outages.
Dino's from heck.
My tank has a skimmer and a GFO reactor for equipment. Nothing else.
Ich is NOT in every tank.
Brew12
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My biggest concern with adding 5 more tangs isn't with the tangs being vulnerable to ich or other diseases.
My concern is aggression. Aggression causes stress and stress is the enemy of a fishes immune system. You may be able to keep the aggression down to the point where they don't directly kill each other but it could be a challenge to keep aggression low enough for them to maintain a healthy immune system.
My concern is aggression. Aggression causes stress and stress is the enemy of a fishes immune system. You may be able to keep the aggression down to the point where they don't directly kill each other but it could be a challenge to keep aggression low enough for them to maintain a healthy immune system.
JenniferMcK
Active Member
I also have to say that quarantining your fish for ick, velvet, brook, flukes, etc will be pointless in the long run if you don't quarantine your corals, nems, inverts, etc. Everything with a hard surface can have encysted ick, velvet, etc on it and nems can have free swimmers in the water that they hold in their tentacles. So with that being said even if you quarantine your fish and start out with an ick-less tank, adding anything later without proper quarantining will just reintroduce it. So it is up to each person to determine whether they want to go through that much quarantining vs ich management. There are pros and cons to each method and it's just a decision each person has to make.
OP
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@Lasse a few questions:
About lowering the ph, I just pour a bottle of carbonated water (seltzer?) into the QT? I am going to have an air stone in QT, do I turn that off?
What happens if I remove too much of my display tank water? I have an auto tip off, but won’t that lower my salinity if I keep taking water from the tank?
I have a guy come and do a 75% water change to my tank once a month. I could ask him to come and fill some brute trash cans for me.
Maybe I could just make my own saltwater and whatever amount I take from DT, I refill with new saltwater?
About lowering the ph, I just pour a bottle of carbonated water (seltzer?) into the QT? I am going to have an air stone in QT, do I turn that off?
What happens if I remove too much of my display tank water? I have an auto tip off, but won’t that lower my salinity if I keep taking water from the tank?
I have a guy come and do a 75% water change to my tank once a month. I could ask him to come and fill some brute trash cans for me.
Maybe I could just make my own saltwater and whatever amount I take from DT, I refill with new saltwater?
BestMomEver
2500 Club Member
I’m not sure if I’m correct but from what I’ve seen, most fish harbor ick. Humans also have a few things (including Streptococcus) they carry around that only appear when our resistance is low. I’ve had a few fish that have had a spot or two of ick but it goes away. It’s velvet that you need to worry about. If the fish you ordered are otherwise healthy, I wouldn’t worry too much. Put them through QT. You’ll be ok. FWIW, I had an orange shoulder once. He was a great fish.
Pure carbonated water works. No adds in it. But take it carefully because it is very potent. You need to measure the pH in one or another way. Test before how much you need to pure in.
Yes you should just have movement in the water from a water pump but in the moment you have transfer the fish into the QT you can start all things again including an aeration if you want. The pH should not go lower than 6.6 or near. If it goes down to much - just aerate. Talk to the guy about saving the water. If you store the old water - aerate it.
Sincerely Lasse
Yes you should just have movement in the water from a water pump but in the moment you have transfer the fish into the QT you can start all things again including an aeration if you want. The pH should not go lower than 6.6 or near. If it goes down to much - just aerate. Talk to the guy about saving the water. If you store the old water - aerate it.
Sincerely Lasse
SeaDweller
2500 Club Member
If ich is in your system, like mine, QTing will only help to not introduce velvet or anything else into your system.
I have yet to lose a fish to ich, truly. I’ve lost more fish trying to treat them after the fact. I’ve done countless TTM to the T to what I thought was flawless and yet it shows up in my tank somehow. My fish manage ich well, and guess what? I have nine tangs, three of which are acanthurus: Achilles, sohal, PBT, chevron, Tomini, hippo, purple, desjardini and yellow. They show spots randomly. There’s also 22 anthias, potters angel, leopard wrasse, Midas blenny, yellow headed goby.
If that’s not ich heaven then I don’t know what is. All fish fare well, but I am in no way advocating to skip qt, it just slipped thru into my system somehow. I’ll never do ttm again, as I feel it failed me. Copper seems to be the best for fish that can handle it.
Honestly, if I were you, I wouldn’t be afraid of acanthurids in your situation, I’d Copper them to make sure they don’t bring something else in though. And honestly I just recently added my PBT.
I have yet to lose a fish to ich, truly. I’ve lost more fish trying to treat them after the fact. I’ve done countless TTM to the T to what I thought was flawless and yet it shows up in my tank somehow. My fish manage ich well, and guess what? I have nine tangs, three of which are acanthurus: Achilles, sohal, PBT, chevron, Tomini, hippo, purple, desjardini and yellow. They show spots randomly. There’s also 22 anthias, potters angel, leopard wrasse, Midas blenny, yellow headed goby.
If that’s not ich heaven then I don’t know what is. All fish fare well, but I am in no way advocating to skip qt, it just slipped thru into my system somehow. I’ll never do ttm again, as I feel it failed me. Copper seems to be the best for fish that can handle it.
Honestly, if I were you, I wouldn’t be afraid of acanthurids in your situation, I’d Copper them to make sure they don’t bring something else in though. And honestly I just recently added my PBT.
SeaDweller
2500 Club Member
Like how, introducing a new fish that has ich on it?
What you’re saying is like saying EVERYONE that’s alive has herpes or HIV or whatever disease you can think of.
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I dont think that you can say this (at all). Firstly - in the wild CI isn't seen on'everyfish' even with biopsies and research techniques. If you're trying to say that CI is in 'every tank'-how did it get there?
rkpetersen
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I QT, and don't have ich/crypto in either DT currently, but I've had it in previous tanks.
It's very common to see episodes of ich/crypto in the DT gradually decrease in severity and then just vanish.
Especially if you're not adding new fish all the time.
If it were just ich/crypto we needed to worry about, I might not QT at all.
But velvet, brook, uronema, flukes are all out there and fairly common.
I don't want any of those in a DT at all, so I QT.
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BestMomEver
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I know strep is bacteria. I only used that as an example. I was only trying to say that lots of critters carry bad stuff around. Sorry for the confusion!
drstardust
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This exactly.
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McPuff
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I QT all my new fish now and start with TTM. Done correct, it will mean the fish is ich-free once the 12 days are complete. After that is a QT where I can further observe and treat with Prazi and some medicated foods for internal parasites. I don't go nuts with chemicals such as copper. Prazi, metro, kanaplex, that's it. I would treat reactively if I saw brook or velvet but I don't want to treat proactively. TTM has been remarkably effective. I see spots once in a while on my one tang or another but it's hard to tell if it's ich or just scales out of place. They never get worse and never pass to another fish so it's probably the latter. Velvet scares the crap out of me as I had a crash about 15 years ago caused by either velvet or some bacteria. 4-5 days and all 12 or so large, beautiful fish were dead. To me, another benefit of QT is it provides more time to acclimate a fish, fatten it up, and assess its condition/behavior. Once you add to DT, it's easier to see if the fish behave any differently (i.e., negative changes). I think it's worth the extra effort.
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