Removing sand from tank/salinity dipping live rock..

[mrsean]

Hey guys, I have been doing some reading online and want to get someone else's opinion. I will try to keep it short and simple. If you have any experience with these two topics please tell me about your experience. I have a bio cube 29 and have never been able to house sps, just lps and softies. I run chemi pure blue and have a aquaticlife 115 protein skimmer. It also has an LED kit installed and a mp10 powerhead.

1. I want to remove the sand from my tank and go bare bottom. I have always struggled with high nutrient levels in my tank and think going bb will help solve that problem. I don't want to open the conversation about over feeding or other reasons for high nutrient levels, I just want to focus on the possibility of going bb without nuking everything in the tank. My plan would be to remove all live rock, fish and corals and temporary store them in an extra tank. Then break down the bio cube and thoroughly clean it as if it were basically new. Then simply just put everything back in the tank and do a water change while I'm at it. Does anyone see any red flags with that? My sand bed is at most 2 inches deep in a few spots but just an inch in most places. To help with any nutrient swings I could use something like MicrōBacter7 to help combat it?

2. While I have all the rock out of the tank I wanted to try and rid or greatly reduce the amount of hitch hikers I have, mainly bristle worms. Again I don't want to get into the conversation about them being actually beneficial because I understand that they are but in a bb system I don't think they would help much and would just starve. I don't want them dying in the tank is the reason for removal. I want to preserve the living bacteria on the rock though so coral dipping is out of the question. I read that some people have done "salinity dips" were you make a bucket of salt water at 1.o35 and force everything out of the rock that way. I understand that I can also lose the good little critters living in the rock but I could always just recolonize the rock once everything is all set back up.

Thoughts? Thank you for your time and please be kind :)

 

[Ron Reefman]

Hey guys, I have been doing some reading online and want to get someone else's opinion. I will try to keep it short and simple. If you have any experience with these two topics please tell me about your experience. I have a bio cube 29 and have never been able to house sps, just lps and softies. I run chemi pure blue and have a aquaticlife 115 protein skimmer. It also has an LED kit installed and a mp10 powerhead.

1. I want to remove the sand from my tank and go bare bottom. I have always struggled with high nutrient levels in my tank and think going bb will help solve that problem. I don't want to open the conversation about over feeding or other reasons for high nutrient levels, I just want to focus on the possibility of going bb without nuking everything in the tank. My plan would be to remove all live rock, fish and corals and temporary store them in an extra tank. Then break down the bio cube and thoroughly clean it as if it were basically new. Then simply just put everything back in the tank and do a water change while I'm at it. Does anyone see any red flags with that? My sand bed is at most 2 inches deep in a few spots but just an inch in most places. To help with any nutrient swings I could use something like MicrōBacter7 to help combat it?

Just what nutrients are we talking about?

I seriously doubt that your high nutrient level is due to the sandbed. The source of your nutrient levels could just as easily be your rocks as your sand. I'd consider pulling a rock,putting it in a small container and testing it for a couple of weeks or longer and see if everything is still ok. I have a friend who couldn't stop algae from growing in his tank because he couldn't get the phosphate levels down. It turned out they were continuously leaching out of his rocks.

Removing everything from the tank and cleaning it, then replacing everything but the sand should be perfectly OK. No red flags and probably no need for anything like MicroBacter7 (but then I hate using bottled anything in my tanks).

2. While I have all the rock out of the tank I wanted to try and rid or greatly reduce the amount of hitch hikers I have, mainly bristle worms. Again I don't want to get into the conversation about them being actually beneficial because I understand that they are but in a bb system I don't think they would help much and would just starve. I don't want them dying in the tank is the reason for removal. I want to preserve the living bacteria on the rock though so coral dipping is out of the question. I read that some people have done "salinity dips" were you make a bucket of salt water at 1.o35 and force everything out of the rock that way. I understand that I can also lose the good little critters living in the rock but I could always just recolonize the rock once everything is all set back up.

Thoughts? Thank you for your time and please be kind :)

I'm not a bristle worm expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I don't think they need or even utilize the sand. Amm my bristle worms seem to live in the rocks. So I seriously doubt yours would starve. I'd just put the rocks back in the clean tank.

That said, I've never tried your suggested 1.035 SG dip (or soak). But as often as I've pulled rocks out of my tanks in the past and have bristle worms come off in the air or even in a container with regular tank water, I'd guess the 1.035SG would get them moving.

Good luck. I'd love to see some before and after photos!

 

[mrsean]

Just what nutrients are we talking about?

I seriously doubt that your high nutrient level is due to the sandbed. The source of your nutrient levels could just as easily be your rocks as your sand. I'd consider pulling a rock,putting it in a small container and testing it for a couple of weeks or longer and see if everything is still ok. I have a friend who couldn't stop algae from growing in his tank because he couldn't get the phosphate levels down. It turned out they were continuously leaching out of his rocks.

Removing everything from the tank and cleaning it, then replacing everything but the sand should be perfectly OK. No red flags and probably no need for anything like MicroBacter7 (but then I hate using bottled anything in my tanks).



I'm not a bristle worm expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I don't think they need or even utilize the sand. Amm my bristle worms seem to live in the rocks. So I seriously doubt yours would starve. I'd just put the rocks back in the clean tank.

That said, I've never tried your suggested 1.035 SG dip (or soak). But as often as I've pulled rocks out of my tanks in the past and have bristle worms come off in the air or even in a container with regular tank water, I'd guess the 1.035SG would get them moving.

Good luck. I'd love to see some before and after photos!

Mostly nitrates. Unfortunately my phosphate tester is in my storage so I am unsure what that level is but in the past it has not been an issue. My nitrates float from 5-10 ppm which I know isn't terrible but I feel like I would need to be in the 0-5 ppm range to have success with sps and clams. I have not had any algae issues in quite some time luckily. The rock is all completely clean.

My thought process with the bristle worms starving as a result of removing the sand is because without the sand in place, the food and detritus is more likely to stay suspended in the water column rather than be "caught" by the sand and wedged in where it meets the rock. This way everything gets eaten or skimmed out. I was thinking also if I removed the sand that I would figure out a way to lift the rock off the bottom of the tank about a half inch so the water could continue to flow underneath as well to again make sure everything stays in the water column.

 

[Scotty Buttons]

Not to be negative but I don't think you'll ever completely eradicate the bristle worms. You can get rid of 99% off them but there will always be a couple left that will repopulate. I think a easier way to try and get rid of them would be to make a trap. You can make one pretty easily with a water bottle and some straws. Good luck :)

 

[mrsean]

Not to be negative but I don't think you'll ever completely eradicate the bristle worms. You can get rid of 99% off them but there will always be a couple left that will repopulate. I think a easier way to try and get rid of them would be to make a trap. You can make one pretty easily with a water bottle and some straws. Good luck :)

No I appreciate your knowledge and time! I also don't think I will ever get rid of them completely but more so just try to make a dent while the rock is all conveniently already out. My main focus of the project is fixing water parameters. The bristle theory was just a why not kind of thing.

 

[Captain Quint]

Yes sir, many folks like the little things. I'm one who does not and short of a nuclear device bristle worms to me is the cockroaches of the marine hobby and almost impossible to get rid of.

Seriously, Ron and Scott gave some great advice on removal or coaxing them out.

I see you just joined and welcome you to R2R. We like pics. :)

 

[brandon429]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445

19 pages of your move being done

We collect skip cycle tank work there please add yours as well

 

[Ron Reefman]

Mostly nitrates. Unfortunately my phosphate tester is in my storage so I am unsure what that level is but in the past it has not been an issue. My nitrates float from 5-10 ppm which I know isn't terrible but I feel like I would need to be in the 0-5 ppm range to have success with sps and clams. I have not had any algae issues in quite some time luckily. The rock is all completely clean.

I don't think a nitrate levels NEED to be between 0-5. In fact some sps keepers dose nitrates up to 20 specifically for their sps corals. If you think your 5-10 ppm of nitrates is keeping you from keeping sps corals, I'd suggest doing more research.

 

[mrsean]

Yes sir, many folks like the little things. I'm one who does not and short of a nuclear device bristle worms to me is the cockroaches of the marine hobby and almost impossible to get rid of.

Seriously, Ron and Scott gave some great advice on removal or coaxing them out.

I see you just joined and welcome you to R2R. We like pics. :)

Thank you and I am going to document my project and try to make a build thread all at the same time, many pics and info to come soon.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445

19 pages of your move being done

We collect skip cycle tank work there please add yours as well

Awesome! I have much reading to do. Very appreciated. I will also add my journey when completed.

 

[Captain Quint]

Thank you and I am going to document my project and try to make a build thread all at the same time, many pics and info to come soon.


Awesome! I have much reading to do. Very appreciated. I will also add my journey when completed.

I'd be very interest in your conclusion from the documentation. :)

 

[mrsean]

I don't think a nitrate levels NEED to be between 0-5. In fact some sps keepers dose nitrates up to 20 specifically for their sps corals. If you think your 5-10 ppm of nitrates is keeping you from keeping sps corals, I'd suggest doing more research.

I have heard this also. Maybe I just need to relax for now. Often we over think things and make it more complicated than needed and start doing too many changes at one time and then that's when things go bad. I might just go buy a small sps frag and let it tell me if my water is bad or not instead of me messing with things too much. Thank you!!

 

[Skynyrd Fish]

I would get a clam and some sps going. A bristleworm trap works great as does an arrow crab. The clam and sps will suck down your NO3 and PO4. Are you having an algae issue? You can could always slowly remove a little sand while doing water changes, like 10% removal at a time.

 

[Rick Krejci]

If you want to go BB, I'd personally do it a little more gradually unless you're very lightly stocked. I'd siphon some out that's easy to get to over the course of several water changes allowing the rocks to take over any denitrification that's been removed. Then you can do what you say (removing everything, cleaning, etc) and you're rocks will be more ready to take over. I wouldn't mess with the Bristle worms. If they starve, which I don't think they will, they won't go all at once (they'll cannibalize for a while), giving time for your system to adjust. About anything you do that could kill other life on the rick is likely to cause more issues then just leaving them alone. Unless you have fireworms, then kill them with fire :)

 

[mrsean]

I would get a clam and some sps going. A bristleworm trap works great as does an arrow crab. The clam and sps will suck down your NO3 and PO4. Are you having an algae issue? You can could always slowly remove a little sand while doing water changes, like 10% removal at a time.

No I have zero algae probably and haven’t for quite some time luckily. Currently I have 2 clowns, 1 snail, 1 clam and three small frags (lepto, acan and favia). They all seem to be pretty happy and growing. I just got the clam 2 days ago so still trying to find a happy spot for him in the tank. He keeps flopping around :/ if I go bb then I’ll try your method of slowly removing sand with water changes.

If you want to go BB, I'd personally do it a little more gradually unless you're very lightly stocked. I'd siphon some out that's easy to get to over the course of several water changes allowing the rocks to take over any denitrification that's been removed. Then you can do what you say (removing everything, cleaning, etc) and you're rocks will be more ready to take over. I wouldn't mess with the Bristle worms. If they starve, which I don't think they will, they won't go all at once (they'll cannibalize for a while), giving time for your system to adjust. About anything you do that could kill other life on the rick is likely to cause more issues then just leaving them alone. Unless you have fireworms, then kill them with fire :)

Would you consider what I listed above to be lightly stocked? If so then I would rather just do it all at once but obviously will take it slow if needed. Thank for that info on the worms. I didn’t know they would cannibalize on each other.

 

[doughboy]

Just an idea, for a small tank, probably less work to just start from scratch. That’s how I did it before, just get new rocks, etc and only transfer what you want to the new tank, making sure there are no hitchhikers.