Royal gramma throwing itself + Ick?

[Uncle99]

With being the only fish, and 3 spots maybe, I’d do nothing until we see the infection for sure, show itself and that it can replicate and attach.
I would change nothing from what you do now.
Cant see any flukes on my end, just a few dots.

 

[Matt Bravo]

With being the only fish, and 3 spots maybe, I’d do nothing until we see the infection for sure, show itself and that it can replicate and attach.
I would change nothing from what you do now.
Cant see any flukes on my end, just a few dots.

What do flukes look like? Do they look like small FW that crawl around the sand bed at night?
I’m not sure if this is relevant but I did see small FW on the sandbed last night. They were super small and couldn’t even get a pic of one and now im starting to think they are the cause of this

 

[vetteguy53081]

Wait, both flukes and ich cause skin irritation but im leaning more towards ich since there are a few spots on his tail. I just want to make sure I’m treating the right thing. Is there any physical feature that makes you think it’s flukes?
(Thank you for all the help btw I appreciate it)

Ich is progressive and would show up on the body as well. The flashing you mentioned is consistent with flukes. I didn’t know we had a new member of fish medic team giving advise not consistent with behavior and appearance of the fish

You can do nothing and take your chances

 

[Uncle99]

Like I said I can see only 3 dots in the pic at my end.
Sure it can be Flukes they are transparent members of the flatworm family which attach to fish with hooks. Their transparency and their microscopic size make identification by visual inspection almost impossible.

With that being said, I will yield the floor to those who seem to be very certain on what is affecting your fish, but from this none med guy, not convinced.

Sometimes less is better.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

What do flukes look like? Do they look like small FW that crawl around the sand bed at night?
I’m not sure if this is relevant but I did see small FW on the sandbed last night. They were super small and couldn’t even get a pic of one and now im starting to think they are the cause of this

Flukes don’t show any visual symptoms early on, just scratching.
The first pic did look like a few ick spots on the tail, but the later pics didn’t show that.

Jay

 

[Matt Bravo]

Flukes don’t show any visual symptoms early on, just scratching.
The first pic did look like a few ick spots on the tail, but the later pics didn’t show that.

Jay

Yeah that had me confused as well, they were visible under blues but not whites. So should I do copper or prazi?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Yeah that had me confused as well, they were visible under blues but not whites. So should I do copper or prazi?

You might need to do both together, since fish can have flukes and ich at the same time. Another option would be to go with prazi first, and add copper if you confirm it is also ich
Jay

 

[Matt Bravo]

You might need to do both together, since fish can have flukes and ich at the same time. Another option would be to go with prazi first, and add copper if you confirm it is also ich
Jay

I always heard to never mix medications, so can I do them at separate times?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I always heard to never mix medications, so can I do them at separate times?

I would start with prazi, but then, if the ich is confirmed, you'll need to add copper. It is more stressful to mix medications, but not if the alternative is the fish dying.

Jay

 

[Matt Bravo]

I would start with prazi, but then, if the ich is confirmed, you'll need to add copper. It is more stressful to mix medications, but not if the alternative is the fish dying.

Jay

Alright, I’ll start with prazi thanks for the help

 

[Matt Bravo]

Hey guys, so just an update my fish developed more spots and a mucus layer. I dosed prazi and I don’t think he has flukes. It’s definitely ich so I’m about to put him in a separate bucket to qt him with copper. Can I use prime to keep him safe from the ammonia levels? Also 1.5ppm is the minimum concentration I’ve read but what happens if you bring it up to 2.0 ppm? Will he heal sooner? And last question the display has to be vacant for 80 days correct? TIA

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Hey guys, so just an update my fish developed more spots and a mucus layer. I dosed prazi and I don’t think he has flukes. It’s definitely ich so I’m about to put him in a separate bucket to qt him with copper. Can I use prime to keep him safe from the ammonia levels? Also 1.5ppm is the minimum concentration I’ve read but what happens if you bring it up to 2.0 ppm? Will he heal sooner? And last question the display has to be vacant for 80 days correct? TIA

What copper product do you have?

You can’t use Prime with Cupramine. You can use Amquel with Coppersafe .

Treating with copper in a bucket is not a good idea. Without biological filtration, you’ll be chasing high ammonia all the time.

The tank the fish was in needs to be kept fishless for 45 to 60 days, not 80. 45 days if the water temp is above 81 f.

Jay

 

[Matt Bravo]

I bought cupramine, so I was planning on using that. Also I don’t have an extra qt cycled since this is my first opportunity to actually treat a fish disease. How should I go about this? Would I be able to use prime with copper power?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I bought cupramine, so I was planning on using that. Also I don’t have an extra qt cycled since this is my first opportunity to actually treat a fish disease. How should I go about this? Would I be able to use prime with copper power?

Using Prime with any amine-based copper product is sketchy. Seachem tells you not to use it with Cupramine, but they are under no obligation to test Prime against other company's medications.

The issue is that these copper medications are copper bound to an amine (ammonia). This makes them less toxic to fish. However, the fear is that a reducing agent, like Prime, or thiosulfate can break that bond, leaving toxic amounts of free copper.

You will need to rely on water changes and "bacteria in a bottle" to manage the ammonia, and that is always tough to do.

A better option would be the Tank Transfer Method (TTM) where you move fish from one bucket to another on a schedule and basically outrun the ich parasite. That avoids the need for biological filtration. HOWEVER, the big downside to that is you cannot just put the cured fish back into the tank where the ich was, they will just get reinfected.

Jay