Running High Nitrates But Zero Phosphate

[Fish Fan]

I use Reef Crystals.

Noted sir! I used RC in the past, and it's reasonably inexpensive and readily available. May I should give it another try.

 

[tbrown]

Noted sir! I used RC in the past, and it's reasonably inexpensive and readily available. May I should give it another try.

I suggested looking at what you want your parameters to be, then buying the salt that meets those parameters the closest. Reef Crystals checks most of the boxes for me:

Affordable - ✓
Good alkalinity - ✓
Good calcium - ✓
Good magnesium - ✓
Did I say affordable yet? - ✓

 

[Fish Fan]

I suggested looking at what you want your parameters to be, then buying the salt that meets those parameters the closest. Reef Crystals checks most of the boxes for me:

Affordable - ✓
Good alkalinity - ✓
Good calcium - ✓
Good magnesium - ✓
Did I say affordable yet? - ✓

Agreed! I try to pick a salt mix that gives me the parameters where I want to run the tank. I'd rather try to maintain than raise or correct Alk. I thought the AquaForrest products were a solid choice, but I'm doubting that now, IO has been the standard for so long...... Grrrrr!!! I think I might have to go back to IO here!

Thanks, brother, I appreciate your help!

 

[GunnarH]

I'm not saying this is the only solution, I'm just saying that this worked for me:

I was/am in the same boat, but with a ~120 gal system (display + sump). I even had dinos for a while. My nitrates were so high that the Hanna HR checker just blinked 75.0. My phosphates were zero. I have both fish and corals, but lost several corals during this time. I feed a pinch of pellets two hours after lights on, and a cube of frozen mysis in the evening.

First of all: you need patience. You will get through this, just hang in there. Second, consider dosing phosphates, carbon, and (very important): bacteria. If you don't already have a well-lit refugium with chaeto; consider adding one.

For my 120 gallon system, I dose 10 ml NeoPhos, 25 ml Microbacter7, and 15 ml Reef BioFuel daily. I also dose 95 ml phytoplankton and 24 ml All-For-Reef, which helps the filter feeders and corals. (My AFR dose is low for a system this size, but I'm slowly adding corals. Hence the low dose. The goal is to keep pH, calcium, and magnesium in the correct range, so I keep an eye on my parameters. As I add corals, the consumption will go up.)

The NeoPhos adds phosphates, which (as I understand it) enables the corals and other inverts to be able to actually process nutrition again. Without the phosphates, their metabolism slows and can even stop completely (so they starve to death).

The Microbacter7 helps reboot the nitrogen cycle and also helps outcompete dinos and other unwanted micro fauna. The bacteria may also help feed the corals. It definitely helped with the dinos. You're going to have keep dosing this for a while, until your nitrates come down.

Reef BioFuel adds carbon. which again is needed for the invert metabolism. Without it, they can't process the nitrates. And the chaeto munches on nitrates as well.

As your phosphates slowly rise from zero, hopefully your nitrates should start to fall. Keep a close eye on your parameters during this phase, you don't want your phosphates to spike as well.

Also check out this thread and this other thread, right here on R2R. Good luck!

 

[chustonrt]

Same! Mines a WB25 and all the skimmer have been horrible or don't fit well with a radion mount. We need a 25g HOB skimmer @IOAOI

Agreed!!!

Flow is the problem I had with my WB 25 I had to get the powerhead off the back wall and once I found the flow the pushed everything to the drain properly. I not longer needed the skimmer at all and my water has never been clearer.

 

[Rocks reef]

I suggested looking at what you want your parameters to be, then buying the salt that meets those parameters the closest. Reef Crystals checks most of the boxes for me:

Affordable - ✓
Good alkalinity - ✓
Good calcium - ✓
Good magnesium - ✓
Did I say affordable yet? - ✓

Definitely second this. It's been around for a long time, solid reputation...why fix what isn't broke!

 

[Rocks reef]

Agreed, and thanks to an awesome fellow reefer here (you now who you are) I have some of the LoudWolf sodium phosphate on the way Reef Roids I happened to have on hand, so I gave them a try here.



Agreed about that water changes, and about the phosphate dosing. I am still a little interested in trying the Bacto Balance one this system evens out. You seem to have good luck with it, right?

Thanks again for all the help here guys, you all rock!!

 

[GuillTorr25]

I'm not saying this is the only solution, I'm just saying that this worked for me:

I was/am in the same boat, but with a ~120 gal system (display + sump). I even had dinos for a while. My nitrates were so high that the Hanna HR checker just blinked 75.0. My phosphates were zero. I have both fish and corals, but lost several corals during this time. I feed a pinch of pellets two hours after lights on, and a cube of frozen mysis in the evening.

First of all: you need patience. You will get through this, just hang in there. Second, consider dosing phosphates, carbon, and (very important): bacteria. If you don't already have a well-lit refugium with chaeto; consider adding one.

For my 120 gallon system, I dose 10 ml NeoPhos, 25 ml Microbacter7, and 15 ml Reef BioFuel daily. I also dose 95 ml phytoplankton and 24 ml All-For-Reef, which helps the filter feeders and corals. (My AFR dose is low for a system this size, but I'm slowly adding corals. Hence the low dose. The goal is to keep pH, calcium, and magnesium in the correct range, so I keep an eye on my parameters. As I add corals, the consumption will go up.)

The NeoPhos adds phosphates, which (as I understand it) enables the corals and other inverts to be able to actually process nutrition again. Without the phosphates, their metabolism slows and can even stop completely (so they starve to death).

The Microbacter7 helps reboot the nitrogen cycle and also helps outcompete dinos and other unwanted micro fauna. The bacteria may also help feed the corals. It definitely helped with the dinos. You're going to have keep dosing this for a while, until your nitrates come down.

Reef BioFuel adds carbon. which again is needed for the invert metabolism. Without it, they can't process the nitrates. And the chaeto munches on nitrates as well.

As your phosphates slowly rise from zero, hopefully your nitrates should start to fall. Keep a close eye on your parameters during this phase, you don't want your phosphates to spike as well.

Also check out this thread and this other thread, right here on R2R. Good luck!

Solid advice

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I mean, of coarse, I agree totally, but I assume that's what the box is telling you to do. That makes me not trust this salt right there.

This may already be answered by others, but it isn’t saying 39 ppt. It is saying at 39 g to a liter, much of which is water in the salt mix crystals.

 

[Lasse]

Ammonia: 0.31 ppm
Nitrite: 0.066 ppm
Nitrate: 32.3 ppm (was 50 ppm yesterday before water change)
Phosphate: 0.0 ppB even after adding Reef Roids yesterday

Could be interesting if you could follow this up with daily tests of NH3/NH4, NO2 and NO3 for a week. In this case - your NO2 is of no concern - IMO - it will not disturb your NO3 readings with Hanna High range NO3 reader. In my aquaria NO2 around 0,05 mg/L is normal.

I´m rather sure that the problem is in the amino acid part of the salt

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Hans-Werner]

Thank you for your help here!

Would you think that a good plan for my situation would be to bring my phosphate up a little using sodium phosphate, and then use the Bacto Balance to maintain levels long-term?

I would start with both. The NP-Bacto-Balance may help to reduce adsorption of phosphate from sodium phosphate and to keep the phosphate available.

 

[BriDroid]

Thank you for your help here!

I'm officially over the IM NuvoSkim skimmer I have here! This is from just about 24 hours after cleaning it out yesterday, the cup is maybe 1/4 filled with very wet skimmate, yet the foam is overflowing the top even with the lid on. This skimmer is leaking micro bubbles in my tank too.

Do you like that skimmer you have? Is it working well for you?

I'm also open to skimmer suggestions here as I'd like to keep going with some form of carbon dosing on this tank.

Thank you!

Like IOAOI said, it can be finicky, but once I have it setup it tends to stay running. When I do a deep clean on it, I get micro bubbles for a few days until t breaks in again. After that, no bubbles get out of it.

 

[tbrown]

This may already be answered by others, but it isn’t saying 39 ppt. It is saying at 39 g to a liter, much of which is water in the salt mix crystals.

I was trying to figure that out as well because that would be 39 ppt but it makes sense that 39 grams of salt isn't 100% salinity.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I was trying to figure that out as well because that would be 39 ppt but it makes sense that 39 grams of salt isn't 100% salinity.

The magnesium additives in most salt mixes are half water by weight, and calcium additives would typically be 25% by weight water. :)

 

[Fish Fan]

Hey guys! thanks again for all the replies and great suggestions, I absolutely appreciate it!

I'm not saying this is the only solution, I'm just saying that this worked for me:

I was/am in the same boat, but with a ~120 gal system (display + sump). I even had dinos for a while. My nitrates were so high that the Hanna HR checker just blinked 75.0. My phosphates were zero. I have both fish and corals, but lost several corals during this time. I feed a pinch of pellets two hours after lights on, and a cube of frozen mysis in the evening.

First of all: you need patience. You will get through this, just hang in there. Second, consider dosing phosphates, carbon, and (very important): bacteria. If you don't already have a well-lit refugium with chaeto; consider adding one.

For my 120 gallon system, I dose 10 ml NeoPhos, 25 ml Microbacter7, and 15 ml Reef BioFuel daily. I also dose 95 ml phytoplankton and 24 ml All-For-Reef, which helps the filter feeders and corals. (My AFR dose is low for a system this size, but I'm slowly adding corals. Hence the low dose. The goal is to keep pH, calcium, and magnesium in the correct range, so I keep an eye on my parameters. As I add corals, the consumption will go up.)

The NeoPhos adds phosphates, which (as I understand it) enables the corals and other inverts to be able to actually process nutrition again. Without the phosphates, their metabolism slows and can even stop completely (so they starve to death).

The Microbacter7 helps reboot the nitrogen cycle and also helps outcompete dinos and other unwanted micro fauna. The bacteria may also help feed the corals. It definitely helped with the dinos. You're going to have keep dosing this for a while, until your nitrates come down.

Reef BioFuel adds carbon. which again is needed for the invert metabolism. Without it, they can't process the nitrates. And the chaeto munches on nitrates as well.

As your phosphates slowly rise from zero, hopefully your nitrates should start to fall. Keep a close eye on your parameters during this phase, you don't want your phosphates to spike as well.

Also check out this thread and this other thread, right here on R2R. Good luck!

Great reply, thank you for your help here!

Definitely second this. It's been around for a long time, solid reputation...why fix what isn't broke!

I get it! I've used IO and RC for years, but THE GUNK in the mixing bin bothers me

This may already be answered by others, but it isn’t saying 39 ppt. It is saying at 39 g to a liter, much of which is water in the salt mix crystals.

Sir, I'm sorry, I'm an idiot lol! I completely misinterpreted what the instruction on the box were suggesting I get it now, but thank you for your help!

Could be interesting if you could follow this up with daily tests of NH3/NH4, NO2 and NO3 for a week. In this case - your NO2 is of no concern - IMO - it will not disturb your NO3 readings with Hanna High range NO3 reader. In my aquaria NO2 around 0,05 mg/L is normal.

I´m rather sure that the problem is in the amino acid part of the salt

Sincerely Lasse

Thanks again, Lasse, I'm glad to have your help here! I can try to track those parameters, and I'm not worried about the ammonia or nitrite at all, except if they are driving up my nitrate. I do think I want to switch salt mix, it's not worth paying more than I have to for salt, when this AquaForrest salt is both causing ammonia, and doesn't quite mix to the Alk they say it should.

I would start with both. The NP-Bacto-Balance may help to reduce adsorption of phosphate from sodium phosphate and to keep the phosphate available.

Thanks again for stopping buy here, I appreciate it! I'll take a closer look at your products for this tank

Like IOAOI said, it can be finicky, but once I have it setup it tends to stay running. When I do a deep clean on it, I get micro bubbles for a few days until t breaks in again. After that, no bubbles get out of it.

I'm going to look into other skimmer for this tank, assuming I keep carbon dosing, otherwise I don't typical use a skimmer in such a small tank. I'll take a look at the one from IOAOI for sure. Thanks for your help!

 

[tbrown]

Hey guys! thanks again for all the replies and great suggestions, I absolutely appreciate it!

Great reply, thank you for your help here!

I get it! I've used IO and RC for years, but THE GUNK in the mixing bin bothers me

Sir, I'm sorry, I'm an idiot lol! I completely misinterpreted what the instruction on the box were suggesting I get it now, but thank you for your help!

Thanks again, Lasse, I'm glad to have your help here! I can try to track those parameters, and I'm not worried about the ammonia or nitrite at all, except if they are driving up my nitrate. I do think I want to switch salt mix, it's not worth paying more than I have to for salt, when this AquaForrest salt is both causing high ammonia, and doesn't quite mix to the Alk they say it should.

Thanks again for stopping buy here, I appreciate it! I'll take a closer look at your products for this tank

I'm going to look into other skimmer for this tank, assuming I keep carbon dosing, otherwise I don't typical use a skimmer in such a small tank. I'll take a look at the one from IOAOI for sure. Thanks for your help!

I'd be curious what the SG actually is at those concentrations though since the alk still seems pretty low.

 

[Rocks reef]

Here ya go.. #recklessree#recklessreefer="full"]4198696[/ATTACH]

That's why your tank is rocking! All that extra yummy goodness in your mixing station

 

[Fish Fan]

I'd be curious what the SG actually is at those concentrations though since the alk still seems pretty low.

I was thinking the same, I like to run a little higher on Alk, and I like a salt mix that mixes to that level.

 

[N11morales]

@Fish Fan Any updates how ur nitrate/phosphate looking now? I have the same issue that you had Nitrate is 56 and phosphate .02. What worked for you?

 

[Fish Fan]

@Fish Fan Any updates how ur nitrate/phosphate looking now? I have the same issue that you had Nitrate is 56 and phosphate .02. What worked for you?

I'm still working on this tank, but I think it's headed the right way. I ditched the AquaForrest Reef Salt that seemed to be causing ammonia that was in turn leading to my high nitrate. I using up half a bag of AquaForrest Sea Salt currently, and then I'm going back to Instant Ocean Sea Salt. I used IO salt for years in the past, but switch this time around because I don't care for the (harmless) residue IO leaves in the mixing bucket, but there's really no reason to pay more for salt.

My last tests were just a couple of days ago, and right now nitrates are 33 ppm, which is way down from the >75 ppm I was seeing. I'm feeding Reef Roids and just very recently started to dose sodium phosphate to get the phosphate up. Phosphate is 0.031 ppm now, which is up from zero.

I hope that helps and good luck!