Scopas Tang Disease identification help

[bfiebs002]

Noticed these spots appearing on Scopas tang today. Not quite the spots I’m used to with ick, so I’m thinking something else. No flashing or odd behavior that I have noticed. All other inhabitants doing well and I’ve had him for over a year now.

 

[threebuoys]

What other fish are in the tank with the Scopas?

Did you QT with copper when you acquired the Scopas?

Have you added any other fish since you added the Scopas and were those fish QT'd.

AND.... Welcome to R2R

 

[bfiebs002]

Quite a few fish in with the Scopas, queen angel, powder brown, Koran angel, and many others. Only thing added recently was some live rock and corals (shoulda quarantined but felt like taking a risk). I believe the circle marks on it were caused by a pesky lunare wrasse that felt like doing some hit and run bite attacks (caught him and he’s been gone for months) The fish were all quarantined when added a year and a half ago.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Noticed these spots appearing on Scopas tang today. Not quite the spots I’m used to with ick, so I’m thinking something else. No flashing or odd behavior that I have noticed. All other inhabitants doing well and I’ve had him for over a year now.

The little bumps I see are mucus cone likely mixed in with ich
Treatment will be in a separate treatment tank using copper safe at treatment level 2.25-2.5 monitored with a reliable copper test kit for a full 30 days
How do other tank inhabitants look?

 

[bfiebs002]

The little bumps I see are mucus cone likely mixed in with ich
Treatment will be in a separate treatment tank using copper safe at treatment level 2.25-2.5 monitored with a reliable copper test kit for a full 30 days
How do other tank inhabitants look?

Id like to treat and that seems the best route, any suggestions to be able to treat so many fish (no sense in just treating just the Scopas), I don’t think the the eel will tolerate copper either, and it might keep the ich going during fallow. Perhaps my UV will keep the ich count down and it would be better to simply manage it. As it stands now the qt will have to be in the 180 gallon range, the salt would be ridiculously expensive to manage ammonia at that size (let alone buying the tank and support equipment, and wife wouldn’t be happy with a 180 in the middle of the room lol) Thanks!

 

[threebuoys]

Did you follow the quarantine with copper protocol originally? If no other tangs are showing signs, and particularly since you are faced with a 180 gallon QT, I think I would observe a day or two. During that period, I would look for signs of ich on other fish and for movement and increase in the number of spots on the Scopas. If your intention is to medicate in the Display Tank, keep in mind that sand or rock comprised of calcium will absorb copper and make maintaining the proper concentration difficult. Additionally, invertebrates and coral cannot tolerate copper. If you do not have invertebrates or coral, you could try hyposalinity by dropping the salinity to 1.009. See the stickies in this forum for more information on that approach.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Quite a few fish in with the Scopas, queen angel, powder brown, Koran angel, and many others. Only thing added recently was some live rock and corals (shoulda quarantined but felt like taking a risk). I believe the circle marks on it were caused by a pesky lunare wrasse that felt like doing some hit and run bite attacks (caught him and he’s been gone for months) The fish were all quarantined when added a year and a half ago.

The ring marks are how some colonies of bacteria frow on fish (think like ringworm fungus does on people). I also see other various white spots, some of those could be ich.

Jay

 

[MnFish1]

The little bumps I see are mucus cone likely mixed in with ich
Treatment will be in a separate treatment tank using copper safe at treatment level 2.25-2.5 monitored with a reliable copper test kit for a full 30 days
How do other tank inhabitants look?

And since all of the other fish have been exposed - you should consider treating all of the fish in the tank - and hone leave the tank fallow for 45-76 days - depending on your protocol

 

[bfiebs002]

Thanks for the tips everyone, this morning I noticed bumps appearing on several other fish (e.g., powder brown, and coral beauty). My question now would be should I really buy a new 180 gallon tank and spend $1,000+ in salt for the many water changes to treat these fish or let nature run its course in the display and hope the UV along with feeding well with selcon will allow their immunity to fight it off... Alternatively I could take out the corals and inverts and put it in my other tank for the time being and then copper the display (already have the hanna copper checker and cupramine, though it seems CP is the better choice nowadays). Any suggestions or ideas will be appreciated. Thanks again!

 

[threebuoys]

Thanks for the tips everyone, this morning I noticed bumps appearing on several other fish (e.g., powder brown, and coral beauty). My question now would be should I really buy a new 180 gallon tank and spend $1,000+ in salt for the many water changes to treat these fish or let nature run its course in the display and hope the UV along with feeding well with selcon will allow their immunity to fight it off... Alternatively I could take out the corals and inverts and put it in my other tank for the time being and then copper the display (already have the hanna copper checker and cupramine, though it seems CP is the better choice nowadays). Any suggestions or ideas will be appreciated. Thanks again!

If you are able to move your coral and inverts to another tank, you could try hyposalinity to deal with Ich. Would certainly be easier and less expensive than trying to run a 180 gallon QT.

 

[bfiebs002]

If you are able to move your coral and inverts to another tank, you could try hyposalinity to deal with Ich. Would certainly be easier and less expensive than trying to run a 180 gallon QT.

Would hypo affect the bacteria and life on the rocks/sand causing a large ammonia spike or would the bacteria be able to handle it? Thanks!

 

[threebuoys]

Would hypo affect the bacteria and life on the rocks/sand causing a large ammonia spike or would the bacteria be able to handle it? Thanks!

Bacteria would survive, Should not affect ammonia.

This link goes into methodology and all the pros and cons.

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity Jay Hemdal 2021 This term refers to a long-term bath treatment for marine fishes in which the salt content of the water is lowered and held below the point that certain parasites can survive. The salt level reached, and the time of the treatment are the two variables...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[bfiebs002]

Thanks everyone, I have been cycling a new Waterbox frag 125 as a coral tank (angels in main tank tend to dabble in munching corals), I am thinking I will remove the aquascape and sand and leave that to cycle in a brute container and use the waterbox as a temp hospital tank. I would go with copper (have cupramine with cupramine test and hanna checker, but I may go the copper power route) and might as well treat for all diseases again just in case (prazi, metro/kana/focus), don't want this to re-occur. I should be able to deal with aggression by separating some of the fish in the sump. This should allow me to leave the main fallow for a few months. This will also give me time to setup a permanent coral and fish quarantine moving forward. The easy way always bites you in the end... Does this sound like a good plan? I'm guessing the copper can be removed with waterchanges, carbon, and cuprisorb with no adverse effects on the eventual coral, as there seems to be some old notion that copper will stay in the silicone forever, this hasn't been my past experience though. Should I bring some "infected" live rock over to maintain the biofilter throughout the treatment? Thanks again everyone!

 

[threebuoys]

Thanks everyone, I have been cycling a new Waterbox frag 125 as a coral tank (angels in main tank tend to dabble in munching corals), I am thinking I will remove the aquascape and sand and leave that to cycle in a brute container and use the waterbox as a temp hospital tank. I would go with copper (have cupramine with cupramine test and hanna checker, but I may go the copper power route) and might as well treat for all diseases again just in case (prazi, metro/kana/focus), don't want this to re-occur. I should be able to deal with aggression by separating some of the fish in the sump. This should allow me to leave the main fallow for a few months. This will also give me time to setup a permanent coral and fish quarantine moving forward. The easy way always bites you in the end... Does this sound like a good plan? I'm guessing the copper can be removed with waterchanges, carbon, and cuprisorb with no adverse effects on the eventual coral, as there seems to be some old notion that copper will stay in the silicone forever, this hasn't been my past experience though. Should I bring some "infected" live rock over to maintain the biofilter throughout the treatment? Thanks again everyone!

This should work. Since you plan to remove all of the sand and live rock, you should be able to remove the copper with water changes once the treatment is complete. If you keep some rock in the tank to support the biological filter, you will need to carefully monitor the copper levels. The rock will absorb copper and lower the concentration. Also monitor ammonia until you are certain the biological filter is working. I find Copper Power or Copper Safe easier to administer, but either of these or Cupramine will work. I agree that you don't need to worry about the silicone. While it may absorb copper, it will not absorb enough in my opinion to require special handling afterward.

 

[bfiebs002]

Today was the day, removed all rocks and drained the reefer s1000 so I could catch all the fish and moved them to the WB 125 (cloudy because I removed the new aquascape and 95% of the sand, filter sock cleaned it up) for hospital/copper. House is a disaster but I’m finally done. Thanks for the help everyone!

 

[bfiebs002]

The final product, sacrificing the 15lbs or so of live rock because I need the bio filter (or maybe cuprisorb will allow it to be useable again eventually.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The final product, sacrificing the 15lbs or so of live rock because I need the bio filter (or maybe cuprisorb will allow it to be useable again eventually.

I would add an air stone in the main tank. Circulation isn't as good as breaking the surface tension of the water, and air bubbles do that very well. If there is a skimmer in that sump, that would help.

Jay

 

[bfiebs002]

I would add an air stone in the main tank. Circulation isn't as good as breaking the surface tension of the water, and air bubbles do that very well. If there is a skimmer in that sump, that would help.

Jay

Thanks for the suggestion! I have a few fish in the sump being treated also so I didn’t want to throw a skimmer in there. I’ll keep an eye out on it but I think there’s enough movement with the slw20, 1200gph return and the small waterfall in the filter sock area (removing the socks for treatment).

 

[bfiebs002]

Things have been going well with the quarantine until this week. Suddenly lost a clown tang, hippo tang, six line wrasse, and powder brown (fast breathing and spinning), scopas (fast breathing areas of discoloration) and Kole (some discoloration) tangs are looking rough. Coppersafe has been at a constant 2.0ppm verified by Hanna checker the whole time and ran 3 rounds of prazipro. Ammonia is 0 according to the ammonia alert badge. What could come out of the blue and kill/infect all the fish this quickly, bacterial, brook, bad badge and ammonia? (clownfish is fine, as are all angelfish)? I attached videos.

 

[bfiebs002]

To add to the post above, things I have done in reaction to this was daily 50% water changes and used rox carbon to lower coppersafe to 1.5ppm (min therapeutic) and ensure all remaining prazi was filtered. Just dosed kanaplex to the water in case it’s bacterial. So odd something can develop and wipe out all these fish 5 weeks into a quarantine… extra pictures attached