Should I reduce/stop PWCs on new(ish) tank?

Joe31415

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My tank has been set up late last December (just shy of 6 months ago). Nitrites started rising mid January and Nitrates spiked a few days later. So my tank has been cycled for 5 months. Due to a long bout with ich, the tank has remained empty (but I kept it cycled with ammonia and ghost feeding) the entire time. The fish just went in a few days ago. The tank holds about 50g and I have an AWC doing1 gallon per day. My question is, should I turn off the AWC for a few days to let the nitrates rise up a bit before adding the corals? The nitrates in the DT are about 2.5. In invert QT, they're closer to 5-10 (due to dosing nitrates).
Am I correct in understanding that corals require nitrates and phosphates. Between that and the tank having only had fish in it for a few days, I'm concerned the water is going to be too clean.
Any thoughts?

@Humblefish, this is a semi cross post on your board.
 

dank reefer

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If you can get your DT closer to what you have a QT at I think you'll be better off and might have less issues when moving your corals.
 
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Joe31415

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If you can get your DT closer to what you have a QT at I think you'll be better off and might have less issues when moving your corals.
That's the idea. I plan to match the DT to the coral QT as best I can today (both with nutrients (ie two part/nitrate/phosphate etc), as well as lighting since I've been keeping the DT a bit dimmer than the QT. Plus I still need to check the par at the various places in the DT to see what I'm working with.
On top of that, I'm planning to add some pre-quarentined (Dr Reef) inverts, and maybe some corals, to start cleaning up the sand bed since apparently my fish won't eat anything that's hit the bottom (which, I suppose has the added benefit of bumping up nitrates).

I'm thinking some Nassarius snails and or a goby or goby and pistol shrimp. Though I'm worried about the pistol shrimp and the corals.
 

Timfish

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With regard to water changes it looks like you're doing roughly 60% water change a month. While I feel water chagnes are the only way to reduce the hydrophilic DOC that promotes pathogenic shifts in coral microbiomes I don't see it necessary to do such large water changes. My systems get roughly 5% to 20% monthly.

As far as corals needing both nitrates and phosphates I think it's better to think in terms of total nitrogen and total phosphorus as corals will use particulate and organic forms as well as the commonly refferenced inorganic forms. Another consideration is corals do have preferences and nitrates are their least favorite preferences with the organic forms (amino acids, urea) and inorganic form ammonia to nitrate. Fish are really the ideal way to feed corals. Besides the ammonia/ammonium they excrete from their gills fish poop has urea, phosphorus and calcium and magnesium carbonates that are used by corals.

If you haven't seen it I would recommend Forest Rohwer's "Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" (kindle is ~$10). It's an ezcellent introduction to the conflicting roles of Dissolved Organic Carbon (DOC) in moderating the microbial processes in reef systems.

In addition to Rohwer's book here's some videos you might find informative:

Forest Rohwer "Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas"


Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes


Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont


BActeria and Sponges


Richard Ross What's up with phosphate"
 
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Joe31415

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With regard to water changes it looks like you're doing roughly 60% water change a month.
I think my original goal was about 25% per week, which is close to two gallons/day and I back it off to a gallon. No reason why I can't back it off to something like 2-3 gallons/week or, say a quarter or a third of a gallon per day.
One thing I've wondered is if, given the same amount volume of water being changed in a given period, say, a month, is it better/worse/no difference if it's done once a month, once a week, once a day etc? Then that also gets into how accurate the versa pumps. But that's a question for another thread. Keeping an eye on salinity isn't a big deal.
As far as corals needing both nitrates and phosphates I think it's better to think in terms of total nitrogen and total phosphorus as corals will use particulate and organic forms as well as the commonly refferenced inorganic forms.
If you're saying what I think you're saying (or at least what I'm inferring). I hadn't thought about nutrents that are still trapped in solid matter and won't get picked up on a test. Of course, those same nutrients, I assume, will get pulled out by the AWC or protein skimmer or filter sock/floss.

I actually do add some amino acids to my reef/invert QT by way of Reef Energy AB+ from time to time. But several of my corals have made it through QT (specifically some the ones I've been having issues with), so they'll be going into the DT, with some fish, today or tomorrow.

Plus I ordered some pre QT'd fish/inverts from Dr Reef to try that out as well. So a few more things in the tank when they get here.
 
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Timfish

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If you're saying what I think you're saying (or at least what I'm inferring). I hadn't thought about nutrents that are still trapped in solid matter and won't get picked up on a test. Of course, those same nutrients, I assume, will get pulled out by the AWC or protein skimmer or filter sock/floss.

It's more than just what's trapped in solid matter. You're right, our tests won't show particulate carbon, nitrogen or phosphorus. But our tests also won't test for dissolved organic nitrogen or dissolved organic phosphorus. Our tests only check for inorganic nitrogen (ammonia, nitrite and nitrate) and inorganic phosphorus (phosphate aka PO4). We can't test for the dissolved organic forms of nitrogen or phosphorus. We can get Total Organic Carbon (TOC) tested (last I checked it's about $70-$80 a test) but we can't test for the multitude of different types of DOC there is.

. . . One thing I've wondered is if, given the same amount volume of water being changed in a given period, say, a month, is it better/worse/no difference if it's done once a month, once a week, once a day etc? . . .

I suspect it will be a long time before your question is answered by research. Every species of vertebrate and invertebrate as well as all the microbial stuff has a role to play in the cycling of particulate, dissolved organic and dissolved inorganic carbon, nitrogen and phosphorus.

DIP DOP POP.jpg

Context‐dependent effects of nutrient loading on the coral–algal mutualism(1).png
 

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