Should We Really Fear Zoas?

[ruegaroo]

Scientists have been able to test for palytoxin since the early sixties, why haven't we been able to pinpoint which zoas and palys are toxic and which aren't?????

That's what I'm saying. I feel like we should definitely have more info on this.

 

[Alexopora]

I’ve never heard of this before! Why are zoas regarded as dangerous? Just aggressively expanding? If that’s the case can’t you have a “zoa island” apart from the rest of your aquascape?

its just that Zoas carry the risk of emitting palytoxins when mishandled. Doesn’t mean all zoas are necessarily toxic but its just that it doesn’t hurt to be extra cautious. As someone that have encountered palytoxins it can be quite frightening but as long as you exercise caution and run activated carbons, it shouldn’t be too much of an issue. Mild symptoms generally range from itchy eyes, shortness of breath and a metallic taste in your mouth.

 

[62518161]

Respect? Yes! Fear? No!

 

[Alexopora]

Just added last night with no protection and I touched both barehanded imo the risk is overstated by members of the hobby. Some algae have higher palytoxin concentrations than palys

Palytoxins are emitted when the coral feels irritated or leached out if the coral is injured or cut. So touching it barehand doesnt necessarily mean you will run the risk of encountering palytoxin. Still a good practice is to wear gloves when handling corals. It’s not just for you but for them.

 

[Taylor810]

Considering how much PPE we all have lying around now, it seems kinda silly not to wear it when fragging or handling zoas and palys. I get it: the odds of being poisoned are low. But if you already have glasses, a face mask, and gloves lying around due to the pandemic, it serves no one to just refuse to use them. Personally, I frag my zoas wearing a face shield and gloves because I already own them.

Right now, you can get two face shields on Amazon for $6. Gloves are dirt cheap.

Are they necessary? Probably not.

Is it worth rolling the dice? No, IMO.

I'd rather wear a $5 face shield than risk paying by health insurance deductible...

 

[fish farmer]

I feel they are like poison ivy. Some people get it really bad, some don't. But I wouldn't go burn a pile in your yard.

I get poison ivy bad, but if I know I got into it I wash and change clothes.

 

[iMi]

Zoas are toxic and can cause adverse reaction and so are other marine organisms. I read an article once about how dangerous some mushroom type corals can be. Indiginous people (I believe in Indonesia, but can’t remember) eat them. They are perfectly safe when cooked but will kill you if consumed raw.

The point is simple — don’t eat your corals. At least don’t eat them raw. lol

Seriously though, I have always worn gloves and glasses when handing corals back in the day. They are perfectly safe when handled safely.

 

[Taylor810]

Zoas are toxic and can cause adverse reaction and so are other marine organisms. I read an article once about how dangerous some mushroom type corals can be. Indiginous people (I believe in Indonesia, but can’t remember) eat them. They are perfectly safe when cooked but will kill you if consumed raw.

Palytoxin is not a protein-based toxin. Heat alone doesn't break it down, which is why people have gotten very sick when they boil rocks with palys on them.

 

[blasterman]

Just a side note

I've read that palytoxin isn't just found is zoas. It's been found in red algae, a sea anemone, and several species of dinoflagellates.

Scientists have been able to test for palytoxin since the early sixties, why haven't we been able to pinpoint which zoas and palys are toxic and which aren't?????

We have. Ive done a lot of studying on the subject and the actual palythoa that has been tested as carrying the deadly molecule is very species specific.

Your typical pretty designer zoa is harmless.

The guilty bugger is a cousin of green implosions, but green implosions and nuclear greens, both often confused as being dangerous are harmless.

The nasty one is a dull, olive green in color , about 3/4 of an inch in size and a bit translucent. Unfortunately its commonly sold in LFS stores in large clusters on wild cultured rocks.

The biggest problem is if they get mad they release their toxin and trash tanks. Doesn't hurt fish but other corals get decimated.

 

[xxkenny90xx]

We have. Ive done a lot of studying on the subject and the actual palythoa that has been tested as carrying the deadly molecule is very species specific.

Your typical pretty designer zoa is harmless.

The guilty bugger is a cousin of green implosions, but green implosions and nuclear greens, both often confused as being dangerous are harmless.

The nasty one is a dull, olive green in color , about 3/4 of an inch in size and a bit translucent. Unfortunately its commonly sold in LFS stores in large clusters on wild cultured rocks.

The biggest problem is if they get mad they release their toxin and trash tanks. Doesn't hurt fish but other corals get decimated.

Thanks for the info! So your claiming that one paly is toxic and that every single other zoa and paly are completely harmless? Can you link us to any studies on this? Do you have pictures of the toxic one?

 

[MohrReefs]

I only cared when I was new to the hobby. After touching them numerous times with my bare hands, I'm less worried. Could it happen? Sure. Will I freak out everytime I need to work on my tank? Nope.

 

[ruegaroo]

Thanks for the info! So your claiming that one paly is toxic and that every single other zoa and paly are completely harmless? Can you link us to any studies on this? Do you have pictures of the toxic one?

I'm very interested in more info on this as well.

 

[Seamore2001]

You know, I've had zoos of various sorts in almost every reef tank I've run for the last couple of decades. I've been fortunate never to run across a toxic one, or at least never to have touched my eyes/nose/mouth or open wound after messing with them.

We have loads of toxic or dangerous critters in our tanks - one of my favorite fish are rabbitfish, which can make you miserable for some time if you get poked by their spines and envenomed. Same goes for lion fish and several others. Some tangs can deliver a nasty cut, and puffers and triggers a nasty bite. Mantis shrimp, another favorite of mine (though I don't keep any currently) can do a number on a careless hand, and even my large green pistol shrimp has managed to give me a good "whack" to the thumb (that one surprised the hell out of me).

Being careful and aware is the key. The fact remains that many many folks have kept many many different types of zoos with no problem. I'd never avoid them for fear of getting poisoned, but I will respect them and be careful when handling them.

PS: What is this thing about "boiling rocks"? I've never heard of anyone doing this before. I assume the idea is to sterilize the rock? If so, I reckon I'd just use bleach instead.

 

[DED65]

the-dangers-and-myths-of-zoa-toxicity-part-1

I have read this article a few times. It seems like one is confirmed to be deadly, there is not a lot of studies on the others. I have P. Grandis in my tank and I don't worry about toxins, just use common sense. There are many things in our daily lives that can do us in and palytoxin is probably one of the lower risk items.

 

[ectoaesthetics]

Just my opinion. Keeping zoas is like messing with a lot of things in a reef tank. If you handle them out of the tank wear gloves and eye protection. Yes they can cause major issues. But they are not the only thing we deal with that can be deadly. Don’t handle electrical equipment with wet hands, don’t keep electrical equipment in a manner that allows it to get wet (I see plenty of reefers do this). Don’t handle kalk without proper eyewear and equipment. I think the large reaction is because people don’t realize that zoas are dangerous...and then are surprised to discover that they are... no one is stunned to found out that electricity or kalk is dangerous.

My thoughts have always been: Take it seriously and wear the proper gear. But there is no need -in my opinion- to completely avoid handling them... or kalk... or electricity.

 

[andymac1981]

So I’m completely new to reefing coming from freshwater, just started my tank around 3 months ago a nano reef. Since then I’ve started to add a few soft corals and purposely avoided Zoas because of their rep. Well that changed the past couple of weeks and I now have several heads on a rock which will be the start of my zoa garden.
I picked them up from my LFS and local hobbyists.

As with everything in the hobby I did a lot of reading before making a purchase. I came across an article which I can’t find again which basically explained that other corals and macro algae that don’t have palytoxin naturally can if kept with other corals that do carry palytoxin end up basically carrying palytoxin. The article explained it a lot better than my attempt here but this could explain why it is so hard to pinpoint the species that do and don’t carry palytoxin.

 

[Scottsquatch]

I have a theory on this topic, but it is only a theory. That said, please don't flame me if you find yourself in disagreement with my theory. I am of the opinion that the levels of palytoxin in palys/zoas may be directly related to environment. Take poison dart frogs for example. In the wild, with the proper diet they are incredibly toxic, but when we keep them in captivity and deny them certain food items, they are not. This may be the case with palys/zoas. We reefers feed our reefs a plethora of different foods, but we have no idea if any of these foods are significant in the production of palytoxin. I think it is quite possible that the same species of paly/zoa could be extremely toxic in one system and not in another. I think some research should be done in this area, but quite frankly, I wouldn't know where to begin.

 

[KMCA]

This thread is the first time I've ever heard of any hatred for zoa's. Biggest warning I've ever gotten is don't you put'em in your mouth.