OP
OP
Also very important key to the way I cycle ammonia is light feeding with a few hermits and cured rock. No fish go in system until I see ammonia cycle out at least a cpl times.
Should we rethink and refine means and methods for cycling tanks?
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I can tell you what I’ve done, now let’s think;Let's talk about cycling means and methods now
I happen to agree with @Randy Holmes-Farley.
Cycling with ammonia is genius
I’ve set up a dry rock calcite, rock wall fish only, with bottle bac and ghost feedings for a month, no problem.
A full live rock softy reef, bare bottom, ghost feeding for a couple of weeks, no problem.
A live rock transfer, to a small tank, no problem
Small amount of live rock into a mainly calcite tank (previously attached to the live rock tank as a cryptic fuge), no problem.
Multiple QT tanks all with cycled media from display, no problem
One QT tank cycled with new bio media and ghost feedings for a few weeks, no problem
One Display with Portland cemented calcite, bottle bac, bit of live sand in sump and a couple of small live rock lumps, ghost fed, no problem.
Where I have used bought live rock I would always simulate fish feeding for a while and monitor, except in a live rock transfer where I know the condition of the live rock.
I use API to cycle, as to me they appear to show all the lumps and bumps you would expect in a cycle (where appropriate). I have never had a dodgy reading on API that I haven’t found a reason for, ie a lump of food in the sample or using my thumb to stop the end of the vial, instead of using the plastic cap.
OP
OP
Right on sir thank you.
I'm not sure I've seen really wierd things with api besides one tank that was dosed with ammonia and showed 8ppm impossibly. Could have been user error. Most likely was.
I dont dose ammonia to kick start never have. Its always been live gulf rock or similar back in the day.
Just started getting really technical with seneye and api on a bunch of quick start tanks throughout last cpl years.
There really is something to light measured feedings and super low concentration nh3 quick starts. Api helps with the precision of seneye at super low concentrations giving 0's. Although I have seen ammonia linger or lag at higher concentrations through the colors while seneye showed lower concentrations.
For me the key its about the precision and measurements of both.
Super good at low concentrations with one another
Slow loading certainly works. I don’t even remember folks posting problems with cycling before using ammonia, but then again, dry rock start ups were rare, even considered wrong. As was using playsand, but I never had problems with that either.
OP
OP
Absoloutly man. What's super interesting to me now is the bioloads the slow roast can actually handle. Lasse is genius with that I wish I would have ran across his 15 step a long time ago.
I dont think its necessary at all to smash a tank with heavy doses of food or ammonia up front. I guess that may depend on how many fish your trying to carry. But realisticly seeing what ive been seeing it may not really be beneficial at all to smash tanks higher especially if your only planning a fish or 2. Hitting tanks with higher doses may be counter productive there.
Was that before AOL dial up? That’s about when I started
Edit - oh hang on, that may have been my freshwater tanks. Don’t time fly. Started this about 2004 I think.
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They used to sell bleached coral. Which would quickly become covered with whatever. Lol I still have an aol email from that peiodWas that before AOL dial up? That’s about when I started
Edit - oh hang on, that may have been my freshwater tanks. Don’t time fly. Started this about 2004 I think.
b breef
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I meant to add that info regarding how long he sat in there, for that reason. I wouldn’t think more than a few hrs.
I think my “0” nh3 readings were off?( user error possibly because I’m getting consistent .25-.5 readings now. Even after 20% WC which I did hrs after finding dead fish. I do and have been testing nitrites through cycling… never got much in regards to it though. Some,but not much.
im paranoid now that I wasn’t cycled.
I guess I should just keep testing until I get consistent 0 nh3 for a while or what?
I didn’t mean to hijack this post.
Have your NO2 going up and then down?
Which test do you use - you write NH3 (free ammonia) readings - if it really is NH3 readings - your are in trouble - IMO. Is it total ammonia (NH3+NH4) - as I thought in my first answer - your are probably safe.
Sincerely Lasse
Where did he give that opinion - I must have miss that post. In this thread - I can only see one post by him - this. and there I do not see your statement. If it is another thread please link to that post.
Add me to these two guys - IMO - the so called works thread are only valid for that tank in special as not as a general rule. My tank build thread is a huge "work thread" but my management of that tank is only in detail valid for that tank not for all tanks around the globe..
The Berlin method was developed during the 1970:ties and - as I know it - taken into the US (by Julian Sprung) in the 1980:ties. My first saltwater start - back in 1979 - was a total dry start .
Sincerely Lasse
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DrZoidburg
Valuable Member
"Title is should we rethink..." So here I am thinking. Adding to this thread not trolling. How is it that a .25 reading is said to be a mis read or user error. I have experienced this as well. However 90% of the time I use this kit I do not get this error. Nor with other test kits that work in a similar way. Never has a real reason been explained. As you all know from in other thread. I show you that it would not change color at all without certain forms of nitrogen. We do not see other forms interfere with this test kit. We can see certain known interferences. However why are we seeing this color change in brand new tanks that have not dosed anything except food or ammonia products?
I meant to start a thread ages ago to see what stuff could effect it, just for giggles really as low total ammonia readings like 0.25ish, 0.5ish when translated to free ammonia (depending on pH mainly) are quite low and considered safe(ish).
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This could be rather handy too
www.hamzasreef.com
Sincerely Lasse
Ammonia Cycling Calculator
Aquarium calculator; Estimate the amount of ammonium hydroxide solution required to reach a target ammonia level in an aquarium.
www.hamzasreef.com
Sincerely Lasse
DrZoidburg
Valuable Member
I think it is a matter of how they are acclimated to it, or species tolerance. I personally have lost some fish at these .5 levels.
One more
www.hamzasreef.com
Sincerely Lasse
Total Ammonia Calculator
Aquarium calculator; Estimate the total ammonia concentration given either the free ammonia (NH3) or ionized ammonia (NH4) concentrations.
www.hamzasreef.com
Sincerely Lasse
Yes indeed so at a pH of 8.0, 79F, 35ppt you’d have to get it up to around 1ppm total ammonia to reach 0.05 NH3, which appears to be the alert level according to Seachem anyway, not even alarm level.
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I once lost a fish before I got it out the bag, from 20 minutes down the road. There are lots of other reasons fish die.
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