Sick Cirrhilabrus Rhomboidalis

[ErinStecher]

Hi Guys,

This pretty girl isn't acting right. She's breathing heavily and just sort of hanging out in one area. She's new (1 week) and was NOT qt'd. (No lectures please, she was ordered and came in early while I had the flu. This is the first set of fish not qt'd and won't happen again, promise).

A lot of people will watch this video and say "she's just being a wrasse", which is what I thought the first time I saw this a couple of years ago with a labouti. He died 3 days later. Here is the list of her symptoms, which mirror his exactly.

1. Upon introduction, no hiding. Immediate acclimation with no apparent stress.
2. Perfect eating from day one. No loss of appetite.
3. Seems exceptionally friendly, at the front of the glass every day. Wrasses should be off picking at rocks or something, not happily staring me in the face.
4. An apparent bounce when treading water. Almost like a bouyancy issue (I have considered swim bladder, as she is a deep-water wrasse).
5. A tendency for the back end of the fish to be lower than the front end (head is higher than tail)
6. Heavy breathing, especially after eating.



I pulled her out and have her in my QT now. I'm about to start Prazi, but I'm looking for advice. If she dies, I will certainly dissect her and microscope the findings for the cause, but I would really like to avoid that. I really like this fish. If anyone has experience with this, please let me know. Thanks in advance!

 

[HotRocks]

I lean more towards a minor spinal injury here. Usually it's much more severe than what I see in your video. If they go head up tail down and don't seem to have control it's usually spinal.

Wrasse are like torpedos when they dart and this is usually caused by slamming into a hard lid, glass, etc. (I use mesh tops on all tanks to try to prevent).

The best thing you can do here is keep stress to a minimum. Keep flow as low as you can, still maintaining suffecient oxygen exchange. I would also spot feed with a baster or a blunt syringe. The labored breathing after eating "could be" due to the additional amount of energy needed because of injury.

@4FordFamily @Humblefish
Thoughts?

 

[4FordFamily]

I lean more towards a minor spinal injury here. Usually it's much more severe than what I see in your video. If they go head up tail down and don't seem to have control it's usually spinal.

Wrasse are like torpedos when they dart and this is usually caused by slamming into a hard lid, glass, etc. (I use mesh tops on all tanks to try to prevent).

The best thing you can do here is keep stress to a minimum. Keep flow as low as you can, still maintaining suffecient oxygen exchange. I would also spot feed with a baster or a blunt syringe. The labored breathing after eating "could be" due to the additional amount of energy needed because of injury.

@4FordFamily @Humblefish
Thoughts?

I agree. The only thing I’ll add is epsom salt (pure no other additives) dosed 1tsp per 5 gal seems to help the swelling from the injury.

 

[Humblefish]

The heavy breathing is concerning, as it could mean parasites or worms inside the gills. It should subside after you dose prazi, but only IF it is being caused by flukes. However, prazi can actually damage a fish heavily infested with flukes so sometimes a 5 min FW dip is advisable beforehand: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/freshwater-dip.248898/

Maybe @evolved @eatbreakfast will see something in that video that we are overlooking.

 

[ErinStecher]

@Humblefish , @4FordFamily and @HotRocks , thank you so much for your input. It's so nice to have experts' help With the Labouti that didn't make it years ago, I had come to the conclusion that it was a spinal injury, too.

I have an update. I had put her in QT last night with prazi only. I did not do a FW dip prior; I have only discovered after your comments today how important FW dip can be...and at some point I thought someone told me wrasses don't tolerate any treatments except prazi very well. Would you suggest I do a FW dip now, today, after her being in prazi for 20 or so hours? Is it helpful at all?

After putter her in QT with prazi, she seems to be swimming better now, but the breathing seems worse. I have a video below. Eating is perfect; ignore the floating food. She just ate a ton and I overfed when the syringe got stuck :/. Within a few hours she'll be in her new 20G QT. This was and emergency one I set up for her because I was worried about Cu contamination in the other one.

I posed the original on my phone, and didn't have a chance to give you system info, so here it is, just in case there's something I'm not thinking of:
125G covered with 1/4" mesh
Salinity ~1.024, temp ~79F
Skimmers, UV sterilizer, etc. and 60G refugium. No carbon.
Ammonia, etc. all perfect
Tank mates: Hippo tang, foxface, pink-spotted goby, flame wrasse, labouti, carpenter's, Lubbock's, 2nd rhomboid wrasse male, mandarin, firefish gobies, cardinal fish.

The hippo did seem to be after her until I made some rock adjustments and nori adjustments.... maybe it started as a spinal injury if she hit the glass or something? The lid is mesh so probably not that, but with enough force I think that could be possible. Here's the video today showing the heavy breathing:

Start at 1 minute. I'm not good at this YouTube thing...

 

[Wagonpitt]

Unfortunatly just went through this with an orange back wrasse on thursday, had the same advice offered to me aswell by 4fordfamily but it died by saturday.

My problem i think was injury when squirming in the net as i placed it in dt.

Same exact behaviour but wasnt eating. Since yours is eating hopefully it recovers. Good luck

 

[4FordFamily]

If that is a spinal injury, it will probably be another day or two before it’s really obvious. Eventually the tail aims downward as if it has a fishing sinker tied to it. It worsens until it can’t really swim, then it disappears. IME 40% of the time they emerge just fine, the other 60% they die.

But I’m not 100% convinced from that video that it has spinal injury. I can see what I think is the beginning of such an injury showing. The real issue that causes the “immobility” as with most injuries is the swelling.

Lid mesh must be very soft and forgiving, the metal or tight mesh can lead to spinal injuries. They often get them darting in fear in to rocks as well. Unfortunately fast movements in front of the tank, turning lights on, or nets/hands in the tank are all common reasons this happens.

 

[ErinStecher]

Yeah, did a FW dip and I'm pretty sure she's a goner. Hey we'll see in the morning. So, assuming she's gone by then, I'm still planning on scoping her to search for any parasites or anything. I hope I did everything I could for her. But holy cow I thought they came out of FW dips fine. She had been swimming around but breathing heavy. Did the dip, now she's lying on the bottom and can't move. This is evidence that it was a spinal injury. Dear God I hope I didn't just kill her with that. Thank you guys so much for the help! Her lights are off now and we'll watch and wait.

 

[ErinStecher]

Hi Wrasse experts! I have an update. I thought she was a goner after the FW dip but I came down the next morning to her swimming around just fine. So, here's the next one for you. She now has white, stringy poop and is still eating, but looks skinny and is mostly hiding. Any ideas? I'm thinking internal parasites; what would I treat with? Or can white, stringy poop with these symptoms be caused by something else?

Video 1 - Fish with white poop
Video 2 - probably nothing; it's her poop under the microscope. Yes, in fact, I am actually crazy



Poop. Of note - roundish flagellates (large) and tiny, tiny flagellates (hundreds or thousands in view):

 

[Humblefish]

I think she has both internal parasites (flagellates) and tapeworms (cestodes).

Best bet would be to food soak API General cure, as that contains both praziquantel (dewormer) and metronidazole (treats internal flagellates): https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/praziquantel.247598/

 

[ErinStecher]

Thank you so much, Doc! Fish store didn't have any API General Cure (probably from everyone buying and overstocking new FW aquariums for Christmas), so thank you for giving me the active ingredients - I just happen to have PraziPro and MetroPlex on hand so food is soaking now. I really, really appreciate the help with this poor little girl.