Sick Clown, Medicating Advice

[Darkcartographer]

Hi everyone, you can skip to the third paragraph for the short version of this. I bought two clownfish and a randall's goby two weeks ago and added them to my aquarium (20 gallon long), these are my first fish. About a week ago one of my clownfish stopped eating, the next day it was having trouble swimming and was sitting at the bottom of my tank in a corner, by the end of the day it was dead. A couple of days later my goby died overnight and I woke up to the crabs eating him but I hadn't noticed any symptoms.

I went back to the store I bought the fish from, and showed them some videos and photos of the clownfish. They said it was likely internal parasites as they didn't see anything externally wrong with him (the only thing I think I saw was that his belly looked a little enlarged). My water parameters seem fine to me, but they also wanted to test my water, so I took some in. They said everything looked fine but that my nitrates were a little high at 5ppm (my tests say 10ppm, but I might have read it wrong). They also said that me feeding two to three times a day was probably too much for the three fish and may have contributed to them becoming sick, though I don't feel like that is right.

The one clownfish still alive started showing symptoms three days ago (may 26). She stopped eating and had white stringy poop, along with seeming lethargic. My LFS recommended Prazipro and I added that to my tank on Friday May, 27. From what I've read, Prazipro doesn't work for all internal parasites and my clownfish seems to be getting worse (she has started darting around and rubbing against the rocks and sand, and also has trouble staying balanced along with increased panting). Also,I still don't see anything externally wrong with her. So I ordered some API General Cure which I got today, but I don't think it is safe for my inverts.

I don't have a quarantine or hospital tank setup, but I have an empty 5 gallon tank available, with a HOB filter, heater, and thermometer. I also already have some biomedia ready in my main tank. Would the 5 gallon be sufficient to hold my clown while I treat it with the General Cure? Also, would you recommend this course of action (stopping the Prazipro and switching to General Cure). Based on how quickly my other two fish died, I didn't think this clown would still be alive, but I still feel like I'm running out of time. She hasn't eaten anything in three days.

Thank you for any help!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi everyone, you can skip to the third paragraph for the short version of this. I bought two clownfish and a randall's goby two weeks ago and added them to my aquarium (20 gallon long), these are my first fish. About a week ago one of my clownfish stopped eating, the next day it was having trouble swimming and was sitting at the bottom of my tank in a corner, by the end of the day it was dead. A couple of days later my goby died overnight and I woke up to the crabs eating him but I hadn't noticed any symptoms.

I went back to the store I bought the fish from, and showed them some videos and photos of the clownfish. They said it was likely internal parasites as they didn't see anything externally wrong with him (the only thing I think I saw was that his belly looked a little enlarged). My water parameters seem fine to me, but they also wanted to test my water, so I took some in. They said everything looked fine but that my nitrates were a little high at 5ppm (my tests say 10ppm, but I might have read it wrong). They also said that me feeding two to three times a day was probably too much for the three fish and may have contributed to them becoming sick, though I don't feel like that is right.

The one clownfish still alive started showing symptoms three days ago (may 26). She stopped eating and had white stringy poop, along with seeming lethargic. My LFS recommended Prazipro and I added that to my tank on Friday May, 27. From what I've read, Prazipro doesn't work for all internal parasites and my clownfish seems to be getting worse (she has started darting around and rubbing against the rocks and sand, and also has trouble staying balanced along with increased panting). Also,I still don't see anything externally wrong with her. So I ordered some API General Cure which I got today, but I don't think it is safe for my inverts.

I don't have a quarantine or hospital tank setup, but I have an empty 5 gallon tank available, with a HOB filter, heater, and thermometer. I also already have some biomedia ready in my main tank. Would the 5 gallon be sufficient to hold my clown while I treat it with the General Cure? Also, would you recommend this course of action (stopping the Prazipro and switching to General Cure). Based on how quickly my other two fish died, I didn't think this clown would still be alive, but I still feel like I'm running out of time. She hasn't eaten anything in three days.

Thank you for any help!

Could be a couple different things. Pictures will be very helpful (under white intensity) to help assess. As for white poop, often there is an assumption of internal issues with clowns while they are being fed Mysis shrimp, Brine shrimp or both. These foods will mimic internal issues. Change foods or eliminate those foods a few days and you will know. With internal parasites, body will be pinched in and fish showing disinterest in food.

Some foods to feed are:
LRS fish frenzy or Rod's original formula
small plankton
Formula 1 frozen
Hikari marine cuisine

Also- How long was tank cycled and what is your ammonia-nitrate-salinity and ph readings?

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

How long was the tank cycled? 3 fish right away into a brand new 20 gallon is not what I would recommend, they should be added a little slower.

 

[Darkcartographer]

Could be a couple different things. Pictures will be very helpful (under white intensity) to help assess. As for white poop, often there is an assumption of internal issues with clowns while they are being fed Mysis shrimp, Brine shrimp or both. These foods will mimic internal issues. Change foods or eliminate those foods a few days and you will know. With internal parasites, body will be pinched in and fish showing disinterest in food.

Some foods to feed are:
LRS fish frenzy or Rod's original formula
small plankton
Formula 1 frozen
Hikari marine cuisine

Also- How long was tank cycled and what is your ammonia-nitrate-salinity and ph readings?

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 10 ppm
pH: 8.2
Salinty: 1.025 specific gravity
dKH: 8
Calcium: 420 ppm
Temperature: 78 Fahrenheit

There was an ammonia spike after the Randall's goby died, went up to 0.25ppm. I cycled my tank for 3 weeks using ammonia and bottled bacteria, and then added some snails, hermit crabs, a brittle star, a pompom crab, and a randall's pistol shrimp. I added the fish 2 weeks later. I was alternating between feeding frozen mysis, PE pellets, and ocean nutrition prime reef flakes. Before the fish, I fed chopped shrimp from my supermarket, and dried seaweed to the inverts.

Edit:
In regard to the poop and disinterest in eating. She hasn't eaten in three days. She does swim up to food when I add to the tank, but then backs away and doesn't eat any.
The fish was pooping brown before it started showing symptoms, the white poop is new. Also, the white poop is very thin and long, and continued even after it stopped eating. I didn't see any poop at all this morning, I hope that means things are getting better.

When I took these photos and the video just now, she did seem a bit more active than she has been over the last three days, or even an hour ago.

 

[Darkcartographer]

How long was the tank cycled? 3 fish right away into a brand new 20 gallon is not what I would recommend, they should be added a little slower.

I initially went to my LFS to get just the goby because I had a pistol shrimp, but the sales person convinced me to get two clowns and said it would be perfectly fine when I asked about adding three fish at once. I shouldn't have listened to him. But I was pretty paranoid so I added seachem stability everyday for the first week with the fish, and tested ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate daily. I never saw any ammonia or nitrite spikes.

Edit:

Cycled for three weeks fishless with ammonia and bottled bacteria before adding inverts, added fish after five weeks (two weeks after inverts).

 

[vetteguy53081]

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 10 ppm
pH: 8.2
Salinty: 1.025 specific gravity
dKH: 8
Calcium: 420 ppm
Temperature: 78 Fahrenheit

There was an ammonia spike after the Randall's goby died, went up to 0.25ppm. I cycled my tank for 3 weeks using ammonia and bottled bacteria, and then added some snails, hermit crabs, a brittle star, a pompom crab, and a randall's pistol shrimp. I added the fish 2 weeks later. I was alternating between feeding frozen mysis, PE pellets, and ocean nutrition prime reef flakes. Before the fish, I fed chopped shrimp from my supermarket, and dried seaweed to the inverts.

Edit:
In regard to the poop and disinterest in eating. She hasn't eaten in three days. She does swim up to food when I add to the tank, but then backs away and doesn't eat any.
The fish was pooping brown before it started showing symptoms, the white poop is new. Also, the white poop is very thin and long, and continued even after it stopped eating. I didn't see any poop at all this morning, I hope that means things are getting better.

When I took these photos and the video just now, she did seem a bit more active than she has been over the last three days, or even an hour ago.

Overall the clown looks good, alert and good body mass. I truly believe immature tank created spikes with sudden elevation in ammonia and nitrate and reduced oxygen, Make this the only fish you have or in better terms do not add any others for at least 4 weeks, feed sparingly and monitor water quality. Add liquid bacteria such as Mico Bacter XLM for a few weeks to add additional denitrifying bacteria.
What test kits are you using ?
Are you using RODI water or tap water from the faucet ?

 

[Darkcartographer]

Overall the clown looks good, alert and good body mass. I truly believe immature tank created spikes with sudden elevation in ammonia and nitrate and reduced oxygen, Make this the only fish you have or in better terms do not add any others for at least 4 weeks, feed sparingly and monitor water quality. Add liquid bacteria such as Mico Bacter XLM for a few weeks to add additional denitrifying bacteria.
What test kits are you using ?
Are you using RODI water or tap water from the faucet ?

Thank you for the advice!
I'm using the API saltwater master and reef master test kit.
Using RODI water from LFS.
I have a new bottle of Seachem Stability, is that good enough, or should I try to get the one you recommended?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Stability is good

Thank you for the advice!
I'm using the API saltwater master and reef master test kit.
Using RODI water from LFS.
I have a new bottle of Seachem Stability, is that good enough, or should I try to get the one you recommended?

. As suspected - Api kits often deliver false reading results. To assure readings are accurate, you can take a good water sample to a trusted LFS that does NOT use Api kits and see what results they get and to compare with yours

 

[Darkcartographer]

Stability is good

. As suspected - Api kits often deliver false reading results. To assure readings are accurate, you can take a good water sample to a trusted LFS that does NOT use Api kits and see what results they get and to compare with yours

Ok, thank you for all of your advice so far! What should I do about the fish not eating though? Also, assuming she starts to eat again, is feeding 2-3 times daily really bad like the staff at my LFS said? Because everything I've read or watched recommended feeding 2-3 times a day.

 

[vetteguy53081]

twice a day adequate and

Ok, thank you for all of your advice so far! What should I do about the fish not eating though? Also, assuming she starts to eat again, is feeding 2-3 times daily really bad like the staff at my LFS said? Because everything I've read or watched recommended feeding 2-3 times a day.

twice a day adequate for feeding.
You never mentioned what foods you were offering. I provided a list above

 

[Darkcartographer]

twice a day adequate and

twice a day adequate for feeding.
You never mentioned what foods you were offering. I provided a list above

I listed them in my reply with the photos.

I was alternating between feeding frozen mysis, PE pellets, and ocean nutrition prime reef flakes. Before the fish, I fed chopped shrimp from my supermarket, and dried seaweed to the inverts.

Just in case I didn't quote that correctly

"I was alternating between feeding frozen mysis, PE pellets, and ocean nutrition prime reef flakes. Before the fish, I fed chopped shrimp from my supermarket, and dried seaweed to the inverts."

 

[Darkcartographer]

Stability is good

. As suspected - Api kits often deliver false reading results. To assure readings are accurate, you can take a good water sample to a trusted LFS that does NOT use Api kits and see what results they get and to compare with yours

Also, I apologize for pestering you, but what test kit would you recommend?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Also, I apologize for pestering you, but what test kit would you recommend?

Hanna and salifert
(I like conversing with reefers)

 

[Darkcartographer]

Hanna and salifert
(I like conversing with reefers)

I just have one last question. So, in ending what would you recommend in terms of medication. Should I do another round of the Prazipro that my LFS recommended, should I use the General Cure, or should I not use any other medication and proceed by managing my water quality better and adding bacteria. Again, thank you for all of the advice!

 

[vetteguy53081]

I just have one last question. So, in ending what would you recommend in terms of medication. Should I do another round of the Prazipro that my LFS recommended, should I use the General Cure, or should I not use any other medication and proceed by managing my water quality better and adding bacteria. Again, thank you for all of the advice!

Quick Cure OR Ruby Rally Pro

 

[Darkcartographer]

Quick Cure OR Ruby Rally Pro

Thank you!