Simon's 450

[ca1ore]

Have had the trident now for a few weeks. Calcium and mag stay mostly steady, but alkalinity does fluctuate during the day. It’s at its highest at 6 am, as one would expect, nominally at 9.2; at its lowest at 6 pm, also as one would expect, at nominally 8.9.

 

[Janci]

Looking great.
I never noticed, but you use GHL dosers instead of the Neptunes.
Was there a special reason for that choice?

 

[Renton777]

Enjoyed your build/tank! Thanks for documenting it. I am looking to an upgrade to a similar sized tank as your in the next year or so.

 

[ca1ore]

Looking great.
I never noticed, but you use GHL dosers instead of the Neptunes.
Was there a special reason for that choice?

I do use a DOS now for automated water change, but at the time I was looking for a replacement for my very old dosing pumps it was just new to the market and I preferred the reported reliability of the GHL. Plus it was cheaper per dosing head. It’s the standalone version and I have been mostly pleased with it. Although I have a silly number of apex modules, I’m not wedded to it and if there is something that strikes me as better in the market I’ll go that way.

 

[ca1ore]

Summer project .... but what is it .....

 

[JimFuller]

Summer project .... but what is it .....

Just a guess, but a heat exchanger. You look like you want to reduce your heat bill.

 

[ca1ore]

.... and my cooling bill.

 

[User]

Myself and dubs83 thoroughly debated this a while ago, and he implemented it into his new build. He heats his tank with a titanium heat exchanger that runs via a solenoid in his house hot water loop controlled via apex. His heating cost is now literally pennies a month.

The second one of my Eheim jaegers craps out, I’m implementing it too. The cost to replace the heater would be half the heat exchanger cost, I have plumbing supplies abound, and the savings on the electricity to run the heaters amortizes the cost in 7 months.

Good luck in the install. Well worth the effort

 

[ca1ore]

I'm planning to use this for both heating and cooling. Heat source to the exchanger will be an additional leg off my oil-fired boiler. No point in using the hot water heater, because it's electric and thus it would be just a shell game. Cooling source will be well water that comes in at around 55 degrees. I'll keep the standard heaters (almost 1,500 watts) and chiller (3/4 HP) as backup, but am hopeful that the running energy savings will be substantial.

 

[RichtheReefer21]

..... and the piece-de-resistance, my 'mad scientist' sump room.

Just starting to catch up. Really dont know how I missed this. Especially after you helped me save my fish from the breakout in the 55g.

I wil catch up more later tonight. Busy day today.

 

[User]

I'm planning to use this for both heating and cooling. Heat source to the exchanger will be an additional leg off my oil-fired boiler. No point in using the hot water heater, because it's electric and thus it would be just a shell game. Cooling source will be well water that comes in at around 55 degrees. I'll keep the standard heaters (almost 1,500 watts) and chiller (3/4 HP) as backup, but am hopeful that the running energy savings will be substantial.

Perfect plan

Yes- cost effective ONLY if your price for natural gas / propane is less than that of electricity. Here, the differential is almost 15 times. Another factor is that gas hot water heaters keep the water temp high, regardless of demand- so it’s already heating the water regardless. I believe Dubs83 noticed something like a 1 degree drop in temp between the in and out ports of the exchanger. What that means is that he’s only using 1 degree of heat that’s contained in his house hot water supply, and it only has to fire the boiler for something like 45 seconds per hour to make up the difference. 45 seconds of gas vs 45 minutes of 500w heaters per cycle- I know what I prefer.

 

[ca1ore]

I believe Dubs83 noticed something like a 1 degree drop in temp between the in and out ports of the exchanger. What that means is that he’s only using 1 degree of heat that’s contained in his house hot water supply, and it only has to fire the boiler for something like 45 seconds per hour to make up the difference. 45 seconds of gas vs 45 minutes of 500w heaters per cycle- I know what I prefer.

Interesting. I was wondering about that. Probably the boiler doesn't even 'notice'.

 

[ca1ore]

Just starting to catch up. Really dont know how I missed this. Especially after you helped me save my fish from the breakout in the 55g.

I wil catch up more later tonight. Busy day today.

sums it up perfectly LOL.

 

[Conor_K]

Interesting. I was wondering about that. Probably the boiler doesn't even 'notice'.

My only thought is that now your boiler has to run year round which I assume it doesn’t now. Hot water tank does.

Also you could be short cycling the boiler in the summer if the demand is so low.

I think if I we’re doing this I would put in a small sidearm tank off the boiler. Than you’re keeping a mass of water at temp instead of just whats in the pipe. Just shooting from the hip, I think this might be more efficient.

I don’t know if it would be more efficient than using the hot water tank if the exit water and return water temp delta is actually only one degree...

 

[User]

My only thought is that now your boiler has to run year round which I assume it doesn’t now. Hot water tank does.

Also you could be short cycling the boiler in the summer if the demand is so low.

I think if I we’re doing this I would put in a small sidearm tank off the boiler. Than you’re keeping a mass of water at temp instead of just whats in the pipe. Just shooting from the hip, I think this might be more efficient.

I don’t know if it would be more efficient than using the hot water tank if the exit water and return water temp delta is actually only one degree...

Yeah, I think this only works if you have the older style 40 gallon boiler, not the ‘on demand’ versions. I thought about getting a small on demand JUST for the tank, but it would have to run almost constantly to supply hot water for heating so the cost savings go down.

A 1 degree differential on 40 gallons of water at 125 degrees starting temp is pennies to maintain. The Insulation Around the tank probably helps keep that temp so stable which is why it kicks on for such a small amount of time.

 

[ca1ore]

My only thought is that now your boiler has to run year round which I assume it doesn’t now.

Boiler is on and at heat all year round even though the 'call' for heating essentially stops at the end of May and doesn't begin until October - which pretty much coincides with tank heating requirements. Boiler manufacturer recommends leaving it on all year - it is well sealed, so really adds very little heat to the basement in the Summer.

 

[ca1ore]

I don’t know if it would be more efficient than using the hot water tank if the exit water and return water temp delta is actually only one degree...

Doesn't matter. Electric resistive heating is the same regardless of the where. Whether stick heaters in the sump or element in the HW heater. You only save $$ if the mechanism of heating the water is cheaper than electric.

 

[User]

Doesn't matter. Electric resistive heating is the same regardless of the where. Whether stick heaters in the sump or element in the HW heater. You only save $$ if the mechanism of heating the water is cheaper than electric.

Yeah, BTU>Watts

 

[ca1ore]

The other thing that bothers me about hooking it around the hot water heater, particularly if using pex, is the chance of bacterial growth in the pipes when the system is off for a while. Don’t have to worry about that using the boiler. That hot water never ends up in the house faucets.

 

[User]

The other thing that bothers me about hooking it around the hot water heater, particularly if using pex, is the chance of bacterial growth in the pipes when the system is off for a while. Don’t have to worry about that using the boiler. That hot water never ends up in the house faucets.

Solenoid activated or manual flush valve. Only really applicable if it cools and sits for a few days/weeks. Just set the solenoid to open and drain the line occasionally. Or crank the valve and drain it once every couple weeks during summer when it’s not running so much

Anything worrisome from a pathogenic standpoint takes weeks to populate to appreciable levels since they are very slow growing- legionella for example.


I’m confused- we use boiler and hot water heater synonymously where I’m from (uk) so I use them interchangeably. What is your boiler doing- is this just house heat? Hot water radiators?