Skeptical On High Flow Sump...

[mcarroll]

You just have to try the calculator with a few different pumps - hopefully ones you're familiar with - to see the difference the pumps are making (based on flow and pressure) vs the difference the plumbing makes. Optionally, find another pump that's approximately in the same class and use it as a reference. Shouldn't take a lot of googling. ;P

The other calculator I linked doesn't depend on specific pumps, but you might need to gather another data point or two on your pump. Give that one a try though!

 

[d2mini]

The other calculator I linked doesn't depend on specific pumps, but you might need to gather another data point or two on your pump. Give that one a try though!

Sorry to be a pain in the butt, but I went through the thread 3x and still don't see a link?

 

[mcarroll]

I may be blending similar threads. Let me try to locate that link.

 

[mcarroll]

http://www.freecalc.com/fricfram.htm

 

[gpwdr]

water meter;
https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/112826/GROW-LGP0550.html

 

[d2mini]

water meter;
https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/112826/GROW-LGP0550.html

Unfortunately that is garden hose sized.
The ones I've seen for our application in 1" or 1.5" size are pretty dang expensive.

 

[gpwdr]

Unfortunately that is garden hose sized.
The ones I've seen for our application in 1" or 1.5" size are pretty dang expensive.

I need help determining my flow rate. Do you know where I can get a 3/4" flow meter to check the flow rate on two 3/4" returns?

 

[najer]

Very interesting, I don't think this needs linking into a triton thread, I run 550 litre / 138 G water volume through a refugium, no skimmer no reactors, no filter socks or floss, Triton people need to run a refugium, ... I know this depends on your bio load, mine is a bit lighter load, refugiums rock! (I don't run and have never run nitrate or phos. tests on my upgrade so don't ask lol!

 

[Triton US]

I gotta say, one thing I remain skepitcal about is is the concept of a high flow sump. I find it very hard to believe that macro algae is going to remove nutrients from a fast moving water source quick enough to justify the need to run a 10x turnover sump. I have always subscribed to the concept of matching your return speed to the water volume that your skimmer can handle. In nearly all cases, your skimmer cant handle anywhere near 10x turnover. So if you are running 10x, you are probably only getting about 3x through your skimmer meaning that you are not returning fully skimmed water to the main tank. To add to that, not using a filter sock, I dont know how you can possibly get a nice polished/low particulate water. Im sorry, I just don't buy it.....Convince me otherwise

I will say, that I DO plan to run your sump configuration, albeit in two diff sumps. My main display tank will be 189g I plan to have a 40br as the fuge, it will be the first stage. The 40br will have an overflow into the first stage of a normal configured sump, with a standpipe section, then a filter sock section (so I have the option to run them if need be), then skimmer, then return section. Total I will have about a 110g between my two sumps, and I plan to use a Jebao 12000 return. However, because my sumps will be in my basement, there is now way I can reach anywhere near 10x turnover with that pump. More than likely be more in the neighborhood of 3-4x, which again, is what my Vertex Alpha 200 can handle.

There will always be debate regarding what the appropriate turn-over is for a system and the truth is that there is no best answer, only what works for a given system to keep it balanced and running well. I remember visiting Sanjay at his house and watching a pair of black photon clowns spawing in the overflow box of his 500 gal tank. The flow through his box was not typical for a 500 gal sps tank- it was gentle enough to provide a stable home for this pair- pretty telling of his system turnover and his tank looked great. Now look at Triton where the rule of thumb is 10-15x system turnover. Why is this so? I will explain.

The whole concept of the triton method is to create a natural, homogenous, high energy environment while minimizing variables. Things like water changes, misc additive dosing, uv, ozone, biopellets, micron socks, etc are considered variables that increase the juggling act we as hobbyists must perform when trying to stay "balanced" The less balls in the air the better the chances of being stable.

The flow inside the display tank should be very strong to mimic water flow on a typical high energy reef. We all know the benefits to this but one key benefit is to keep waste in suspension long enough so that it either lands on the corals where they can then consumer it, or to make it back to the overflow box. Once in the overflow box, the waste is pushed quickly through the massive algae bed where it can be broken down mechanically by the physical barriers the algae provides as well as biologically by bacteria as breaks down and forms detritus. In this triton algae filter there is no sand or mud and only a single rock or two to serve as an attachement point for the algae. The water movement is key to keep detritus and particulates in suspension so that it can be broken down. Bacteria will soon coat the particulates. Since these particulates are being forced to largely stay in suspension, they soon get pushed over the first baffle wall and into the skimer section where some of it can be removed by skimming action. As it moves through the filter it will get more broken up, consumed by organisms, get filtered out, etc. Eventually what makes it throught the entire filter gets sucked into the return pump and pushed back into the tank. Now in the display tank, the even more broken up pieces of bacteria laden food and detritus is the perfet food size for corals and filter feeders. This high energy system is Triton. Having polished, reef water void of particulates is NOT natural. Corals are animals and they feed on things in the water. Accepting some small particulates in the water is to accept a natural system for what it is. Micron socks and advanced methods of particulate filtration has been pushed into this hobby largely by companies who sell these very products. Sure it is nice to have a polished tank and the occasional use of micron socks or polishing agents like Coral Snow or Panta Lith can make the tank pretty for a weekend party but running the tank this way long term isn't necessary once you hit the balance. Where this can go wrong is when people yank their socks and stop doing water changes as well as continue to feed more than the tank needs and/or fail to incorporate a good size algae filter.

Another reason to have proper system turnover is to prevent any of the dosing chemicals from ever settling or precipitating. Because of the large amount of minerals being dosed into the return pump section of the triton filter, it is imperative that ALL the chemicals find their way up into the display tank. I have seen systems with minimal turnover that have a 2" thick block of calcium carbonate in the bottom of the dosing section of the filter- caused by a lack of flow through that section.
We also want to absolutely prevent any dead spots from forming in the filter which can have a negative impact on water quality. Please remember, and this is important, that the triton method is a formula for keeping an SPS dominated reef that the masses (mainly new hobbysits) can follow with large success. The only way to make this a reality is to force certain rules into the method which aim to minimize failure. Experienced reefers who understand the deeper concepts behind modern reef keeping will always, and are encouraged to tweak and modify the system to their liking. You CAN run the triton method with less turnover if you achieve the goals stated above. We are trying to make it "idiot proof" if I dare use that term. Hope this clears things up a bit.

- Joseph Caparatta