SPS and stony corals struggles

[SamMule]

How many fish? Do you feed a lot? SPS like fish poop

 

[bubbgee]

I’m running two Kessil AP9X and I’m running them on 45% strength, I checked with a par meter and my levels (where my frag rack is) is around 80-100 par. I have hot spots of ~400 where my lights overlap

The Frag rack is where your SPS is at and it is at 80-100 PAR? Is that right?

 

[bubbgee]

I had the same issue until I got my pH up to 7.9 and above. Any time my pH bottoms at 7.5 to 7.6, some SPS peels and die.

 

[bobnicaragua]

I’m running two Kessil AP9X and I’m running them on 45% strength, I checked with a par meter and my levels (where my frag rack is) is around 80-100 par. I have hot spots of ~400 where my lights overlap

SPS need more than 80-100 par.

Adjusting that and getting the phosphates down would be good steps in the right direction.

 

[Ryan Souza]

Yeh if they are only getting 100 par that can be the culprit, however I would think browning would occur first indicating not enough light before just melting.

 

[Creggers]

How many fish? Do you feed a lot? SPS like fish poop

I have 9 fish and I feed twice a day, once frozen and once pellets.

SPS need more than 80-100 par.

Adjusting that and getting the phosphates down would be good steps in the right direction.

I can try moving my second frag rack up higher to get more par. Around 250 exists at the mid point of my tank so I’ll try with my next batch and existing slowly dying sps.

Yeh if they are only getting 100 par that can be the culprit, however I would think browning would occur first indicating not enough light before just melting.

I may be using melting in the wrong sense. They lose vibrancy then lose flesh from the edges

 

[Shirak]

I’m running two Kessil AP9X and I’m running them on 45% strength, I checked with a par meter and my levels (where my frag rack is) is around 80-100 par. I have hot spots of ~400 where my lights overlap

There is your problem.. You shouldn't be getting hot spots of 400 par at 45%. So something is not correct with the positioning or distance to the water. Perhaps they are not the best option for the size and dimensions of your tank.

Photo of the overall setup?

 

[gbroadbridge]

There is your problem.. You shouldn't be getting hot spots of 400 par at 45%. So something is not correct with the positioning or distance to the water. Perhaps they are not the best option for the size and dimensions of your tank.

Photo of the overall setup?

This is a good point.

A lot of folks do not understand how the physics of distance works when it comes to lighting.

By placing a light source closer to the surface of the water you can increase surface PAR whilst keeping the bottom of the tank at a much lower PAR.

Light levels drop off following the inverse square law, which means doubling the distance drops the light level by a factor of 4, so if you want higher surface PAR while maintaining a lower light level on the substrate you need to lower the lights closer to the water and drop the power output from the fixture.

 

[Hemmbone20]

This is a good point.

A lot of folks do not understand how the physics of distance works when it comes to lighting.

By placing a light source closer to the surface of the water you can increase surface PAR whilst keeping the bottom of the tank at a much lower PAR.

Light levels drop off following the inverse square law, which means doubling the distance drops the light level by a factor of 4, so if you want higher surface PAR while maintaining a lower light level on the substrate you need to lower the lights closer to the water and drop the power output from the fixture.

This is interesting. I never thought of it like that.
I borrowed a PAR meter from my LFS today… tomorrow I’m going to do some experiments.

 

[Creggers]

There is your problem.. You shouldn't be getting hot spots of 400 par at 45%. So something is not correct with the positioning or distance to the water. Perhaps they are not the best option for the size and dimensions of your tank.

Photo of the overall setup?

Here is a collection of photos of the setup - this is approximately a week between glass cleanings to give you an idea of how little algae collects on on my glass.

The front and left side I cleaned about a week ago, the far right panel with the Gyre on it has about 3 weeks of growth on it.

I followed the BRS recommended settings for both the intensity and the mounting height.

 

[Ryan Souza]

Maybe add flow to the list of questionable, as I think I only see 1 gyre there. Sorry I see the wav on the backside now, how is the flow on the frag rack.

 

[Shirak]

Thanks for the photos! Helps give a better idea. So the main question is.. what are your goals? If you are trying for a mixed reef with a few acros top, a few LPS around the rock and a good number of softies then you can do that with what you have with the addition of another Gyre on the other side.

If you are wanting a good number of SPS and LPS then you need to make changes on the lighting. Unless you are trying to create a hot spot in the middle the spacing side to side should be widened with a bigger gap between the two.

The biggest thing though and what IMO is giving you the most trouble is the depth of the tank front to back. You basically have 4 LED pucks all in a row slightly back from center. A tank with this depth, those lights should be rotated 90degrees and a couple more added across the width.. Alternative would be a couple LED strips. One in front and one in back of your current lights, running across the width.

 

[thedon986]

Definitely a light issue. If budget is a concern there are Radion knock offs on AliExpress that have gotten good reviews here. If no concern add another Kessil or two.

 

[Creggers]

Thanks for the photos! Helps give a better idea. So the main question is.. what are your goals? If you are trying for a mixed reef with a few acros top, a few LPS around the rock and a good number of softies then you can do that with what you have with the addition of another Gyre on the other side.

If you are wanting a good number of SPS and LPS then you need to make changes on the lighting. Unless you are trying to create a hot spot in the middle the spacing side to side should be widened with a bigger gap between the two.

The biggest thing though and what IMO is giving you the most trouble is the depth of the tank front to back. You basically have 4 LED pucks all in a row slightly back from center. A tank with this depth, those lights should be rotated 90degrees and a couple more added across the width.. Alternative would be a couple LED strips. One in front and one in back of your current lights, running across the width.

My goal was to have the rock in the center have Acro up top along with some Montipora. On the left I would have euphillia, and right blastos / lower light sps /LPS. A true mixed reef. I suppose I should do a par meter rental to properly map out the lighting in my tank, I do think that my kessils have enough punch left in them as I've seen some systems with the lights growing a variety of sticks.

 

[DenverSaltyFarm]

I bought this one on amazon for $147 and its very accurate highly recommend

 

[Shirak]

The style tank you have with the 24" front to back width needs more than a single strip of lights centered down the middle. You can see the evidence in this by how often you are cleaning the sides of the tank. With proper lighting hitting the walls of the tank they should need cleaning a couple times a week... or more

Sure you can crank them up to get enough light out beyond the center point of the tank but you will roast everything in the middle. For the setup the way it is, you absolutely need a par meter. You are going to have wildly differing par values front to back, side to side and up and down. 48" LED strip across the back and in front of current lights IMO would be the way to go.


Your rockwork is not going to work out long term because of the shallow height of the tank. Acros on top will very quickly outgrow the 5 or 6" you have on the other rock piles

The pile on the right side is too high and blocking the Gyre. You need another Gyre on the other side to create flow from both sides randomly or in reverse fashion. The 60" length needs strong pumps on both sides to create the cross current flows that LPS and SPS like. Then once you have acros all across the top, flow will become an issue as they will block the flow from one side to the other..Gyres mounted in the front corners vertically could be an option too.

You have some unique challenges with this tank because of the dimensions. I think it could look amazing! If it were me.. I would reduce the rock height. Add more flow and add strip LED to give better more uniform lighting across the surface. Something like the AI Blade, Reef Brite, Orphek strip OR4

 

[Creggers]

The style tank you have with the 24" front to back width needs more than a single strip of lights centered down the middle. You can see the evidence in this by how often you are cleaning the sides of the tank. With proper lighting hitting the walls of the tank they should need cleaning a couple times a week... or more

Sure you can crank them up to get enough light out beyond the center point of the tank but you will roast everything in the middle. For the setup the way it is, you absolutely need a par meter. You are going to have wildly differing par values front to back, side to side and up and down. 48" LED strip across the back and in front of current lights IMO would be the way to go.


Your rockwork is not going to work out long term because of the shallow height of the tank. Acros on top will very quickly outgrow the 5 or 6" you have on the other rock piles

The pile on the right side is too high and blocking the Gyre. You need another Gyre on the other side to create flow from both sides randomly or in reverse fashion. The 60" length needs strong pumps on both sides to create the cross current flows that LPS and SPS like. Then once you have acros all across the top, flow will become an issue as they will block the flow from one side to the other..Gyres mounted in the front corners vertically could be an option too.

You have some unique challenges with this tank because of the dimensions. I think it could look amazing! If it were me.. I would reduce the rock height. Add more flow and add strip LED to give better more uniform lighting across the surface. Something like the AI Blade, Reef Brite, Orphek strip OR4

I have a par meter ordered cause I accept that I'd need to map it out - I was using this video to inform my placement and settings: https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/content/post/brstv-investigates-kessil-ap9x-led-light. If I need more light an Orphek strip or an AI Blade is likely in my future. I would even consider a bay of T5s hanging from the ceiling but my partner would need to approve of that first LOL.

I have some flexibility with the rockwork and i'm thinking of how I can re-orient it. The gyre is not being blocked as much as it appears by the rock stalk on the right - the center of the gyre is centered on the rock and I utilized the deflectors to adjust the flow around the rock work. When I drop in food, there is no deadspots and it all gets eaten / goes down my overflow.

 

[NeutronMan]

A par meter is one of those costly expenses that go along with sps corals…

It’ll suss out the areas struggling due to low light. I was convinced that I had a water chemistry problem for years before my LFS sent me home with their par meter. Sure enough, my lighting was too low. Doubling up on lighting finally got my corals growing.

-Matt

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

Unsolicited opinion here. I never had the ap9x but I did have its predecessor the ap700. I was able to have pretty good success with one on a 36x24x18ish tank and two on a 72x24x24ish tank. A few caveats to both setups. First, my mounting height was way, way lower than what you’re running at 7-10” max above the water. Second, they were running 100% for eight hours or so (ramping up and down just for craps and giggles). Lastly, and this is probably the biggest, I had power compacts on the small tank and T5s on the large tank. With that, there were some sps that lived just fine, but didn’t really flourish and grow with that lighting. I now have three of the 500x with T5s on the larger tank. I think you’ll really struggle with sps without bumping up the intensity a lot, lowering the lights, and either adding a third ap9x, bars, or ideally both.

 

[Ryan Souza]

Still using an ati 8 bulb, it's hanging from the ceiling, and it's got my wife's stamp of approval for what its worth. Agree with all the suggestions here.