SPS browning / losing tissue and then bleaching....why?
- Thread starter chuckfu5
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Have you considered lowering your Dkh to closer to 7-8? Also, instead of buying all the fancy corals that have dealt with shipping stress, have you considered going to your LFS and buying some beginner SPS? And if your leaving your new frags on that frag rack, it is not an ideal place for them. They will do better with more flow in the rock work and less stress from being so close to each other. When one coral starts doing poorly on that rack it will have a huge effect on the rest near by.
I may be way off with this but.... 300 par peak for how many hours a day. I've been keeping SPS since 2005 and have always blasted them with light and flow. I run my LED stunner strips from 8am to 9 pm. My LED black boxes at 100% for 11 hours a day and then the T-5s run for 8 hours a day. You dont want to blast them with massive par, but you may also want to mimic mother nature and give them a more natural sun up sun down light cycle for a longer day.
I agree with the DKH. I’m in the process of slowly bringing it back down to 8 - 8.5. As far as mounting them on the rockwork I’ve tried both. I’m not mounting anymore to rock until this is figured out. Tired of spending the time to move to rocks / glue and then just in a couple weeks having to pull dead skeletons out.
Also I’ve tried LFS frags and it doesn’t matter. Outcome is still the same.
My Radions are only about 6 inches above water level. Measuring with my Apogee I’m getting 300 - 350 at the top of the rockwork with most other places around 200 - 250. Sandbed is right around 100.
Note that these measurements were taken with just the Radions. I’ve since added the t5s and haven’t had a chance to measure par with them but I’m sure it’s higher now.
I wouldn't change your lighting, FWIW because of surface reflection peak lighting on reefs only lasts a few hours. How much are you feeding your fish and/or corals? Research conducted over 10+ years at Southampton University in England has shown PO4 deficiency really screws up the coral/algae simbiosis which makes them very sensitive to changes in light intensity, temperature and increases in nitrogen. Aquarists can keep PO4 at low levels and not have problems as long as corals are getting the phosphate they need from either direct feeding or from fish poop. Here's some links:
Phosphate deficiency promotes coral bleaching and is reflected by the ultrastructure of symbiotic dinoflagellates
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0025326X17301601?via=ihub
Nitrate enrichment can increase the susceptibility of reef corals to bleaching
http://www.indiaenvironmentportal.org.in/files/file/Nutrient enrichment.pdf
Ultrastructural Biomarkers in Symbiotic Algae Reflect the Availability of Dissolved Inorganic Nutrients and Particulate Food to the Reef Coral Holobiont
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmars.2015.00103/full
High phosphate uptake requirements of the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata
http://jeb.biologists.org/content/214/16/2749.full
Phosphate deficiency promotes coral bleaching and is reflected by the ultrastructure of symbiotic dinoflagellates
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0025326X17301601?via=ihub
Nitrate enrichment can increase the susceptibility of reef corals to bleaching
http://www.indiaenvironmentportal.org.in/files/file/Nutrient enrichment.pdf
Ultrastructural Biomarkers in Symbiotic Algae Reflect the Availability of Dissolved Inorganic Nutrients and Particulate Food to the Reef Coral Holobiont
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmars.2015.00103/full
High phosphate uptake requirements of the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata
http://jeb.biologists.org/content/214/16/2749.full
marvelousone
Well-Known Member
how do you go about doing a ICP test.
I feed pellets daily and occasionally feed frozen. I just started feeding Red Seas reef fuel part A and B but I’m stopping until I get my ICP tests back.
On another note I spoke to Adam today at Battlecorals and had a thought. Curious if I could have a high aluminum with the use of Marine Pure blocks.
Hopefully ICP results show something diffinetly.
ndrwater
2500 Club Member
I am with @Diesel on this one. I have never been a fan of NoPox, carbon doing or Biopellets. As other have mentioned, stability is key. Reading through this thread, I agree with a few others that your parameters are bouncing around more than I personally would like to see. An ICP test will help rule out, or confirm several potential problems.
A good rule of thumb in situations like this is to take a step back .Take several deep breaths, and tackle things one at a time. Oftentimes we tend to make things worse by trying to do much to fast. Meaning, adding this, deleting that, without time takes to see if the results are positive or negative before moving on to something else. Doing small incremental changes, noting their effects and then making an informed decision will go a long way to solve the problem.
Based on your posts, 1st thing I would do is get the ALK stable. Bouncing from high 7's to low 10's isn't going to work.
A good rule of thumb in situations like this is to take a step back .Take several deep breaths, and tackle things one at a time. Oftentimes we tend to make things worse by trying to do much to fast. Meaning, adding this, deleting that, without time takes to see if the results are positive or negative before moving on to something else. Doing small incremental changes, noting their effects and then making an informed decision will go a long way to solve the problem.
Based on your posts, 1st thing I would do is get the ALK stable. Bouncing from high 7's to low 10's isn't going to work.
marvelousone
Well-Known Member
where do you buy the kit from.
Ashish Patel
2500 Club Member
I believe its a combination of your ALK being higher than what the corals have been growing in, light acclimation, and tank not being 8months-12 months..which is where various bacterias stabilize causing massive amounts of coraline and organisms flourishes but at the 14 month mark its just another level of stability. If your using 0 TDS freshwater and check all your magnets I doubt you'll find anything off in any ICP test - assuming you don't have high chloramine in your area and leaching metals you should be fine but its still good to get these done every 3 months when things are going well so you can set a base line for things go wrong. Let your tank run acro free for a few months and during this time focus on testing these 3 parameters multiple times per week ( ALK around 8DKH, Phosphates around 0.03 and nitrates 3-5PPM), Adjust your skimmer, feeding, dosing to get this right and other parameters should remain stable on monthly basis and CA is negligible if your dosing 2 part equally based on alk consumption. Next time add the corals low in the tank and only if they maintain PE and color after 1 week bring them to the next level, and repeat this for 4-6 weeks, if you have a PAR meter better. If the start to change then your acclimating them to fast. I am speaking from experience this happened to me already and the tank was just not mature enough and I was not going to wait more than few days to add my acros where I wanted them. Looking back at all the money lost now I take 2 months to acclimate them and take this time to inspect for pest. When I added sps around 2 months after starting, surprisingly the sps at I ruled out as survior (aka sandbed dwellers) are the ones that are thriving now, too much light too soon is major cause of issues. I don't think your doing anything wrong its just like I mentioned (Alk, PO, NO). Another thing I don't believe any sps frags get correct recommendation on PAR and I feel when ppl write acros need 300-500 PAR is the worst advice this forum and literature has...New frags will thrive in 100 PAR and more likely to die in 200PAR, take your time don't get discouraged youll get it next time.
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ReefAddict16
Well-Known Member
Where do you get your water from?
Alfrareef
Well-Known Member
So... a lot of very good tips have already been said and if would add something it’s that those Alk, Ca and Mag spikes aren’t doing good. Also I believe that with those PO4 and NO3 the Alk should be lower targeting 7-8.
The lights, flow/location and temp variations are also something to be taken in consideration and last, remember not to tweak to much at same time, some corals just won’t survive at certain tanks and that in a reef tank good things take time to happen.
The lights, flow/location and temp variations are also something to be taken in consideration and last, remember not to tweak to much at same time, some corals just won’t survive at certain tanks and that in a reef tank good things take time to happen.
I had these same problems. For me, my par was too low. I thought I was in the 200 range. My LFS sent me home with an Apogee and found I was in the 50-80 range. Several years of adjusting one thing at a time and it was the dang lights all along. I dramatically jacked up the lights and now my corals are actually encrusting! I’d double check your par. 25% on your lights is suspect. Radions aren’t extraterrestrial laser tech. I have my 90w hydra26hd blues at over 100% to get par in the 250-350 range. I have a second hydra26hd on the way also.
1. Light cycle to long. Maybe ramp LED's 4 hours, 25% intensity for 4.5 hours, ramp down in 2 hours and can keep blues on during ramp down. Go to 5-10% blue (moonlight) to your liking. Then, all off. T5's on for 2 hours during 25% intensity. 2. Your nitrates are causing brown out and death. I had a friend that fed too much "fuel", "reef roids", "amquel - for ammonia"... at nitrates over 10 you're LPS and softies will do fine but, your SPS and monit's will die. Get over 50 and your LPS will suffer. Reduction in feeding, although, a lot of dead food will be in your rocks due to past sins and will be dying and releasing ammonia > Nitrite > nitrate! You probably have a lot of good bacteria. Also, if your feeding POD's and rotifers and phyto - STOP!!! They just multiply and die and contribute to your issues. 3. EXPORT - hopefully you have space for an algae scrubber or bio denitrifier. You'd only need one of these to export all of your nitrate issues. 4. Lastly, make sure you're wet skimming for a little while and have filter socks - regularly maintained for solid exports. Good luck! When your nitrates come down, your coral will come back. See my blog "Advanced Aquatic Solutions" on facebook. Public page. It provides photo's and explanation of export. The photo's are before and after. Your's look like the before!
Plenty of people here have shown that nitrates over 10ppm isn’t a problem at all. I’ve never seen any problems with nitrates over 10 before. I’d like to see what information you have that backs this up. There’s a guy here with nitrates much higher and phosphate at 1ppm and his acros are growing like weeds. Now if you are using candlight to light the tank, high nitrates are probably bad. Mine are high and I have zero browned acros, I have acros that need to darken up.
How's your potassium levels?
That's a good level. 400 is Ocean water.
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