SPS Pros - are my frags looking healthy? (Video)

[Perry]

Many, many, moons ago, I had a very respected reefer on the other site seek my advice, I was taken back, as I actually looked up to this reefer. We went back and forth on many topics, but rested on bringing things back to basics. Simple, make things very simple. From there, the building blocks are in place, and over time, with healthy corals, we then elevate the experience, and tweak.

 

[sanzz18]

IMO ,Just like there's advice to not do anything, there's advice to do testing and dosing and chasing numbers , but you need to have some knowledge of what your doing, most are not quite there yet, thats why it's just easier to give the advice to do nothing ,feed more do waterchanges stuff like that, but its totally possible to chase around numbers(aiming for any set parameter is technically chasing numbers) that's how you hit the target, but if you don't know how to shoot, then here's a shotgun and just point it that way with water changes.

Your phosphates might be higher than that test is showing, or maybe very intense lights , i almost see the start of them getting brown, the green slimer in that last picture compared to the first video lost a bit of its green color, with an overall brown tint, I see the green hair algae is "healthy looking" and very thick forming in most rock cracks. gfo does work but in a system going from never using it, a very small amount must be used with low flow (gph) for the the first week or two, the issues with gfo is how fast it strips because it's so efficient or used to aggressively and the system has never had it before, it needs to adjust, think months to lower levels not days unfortunately its usually days with most implications because it does work so well. In the beginning sometimes a timer or one day on one day off works good for example. There are tons of ways to do anything but I like to test and adjust and act if I see something going on. "Chasing it"

After discussing in this thread as well as some local people who are into SPS, everyone seems to be on the same page with advice. I turned off my carbon and gfo reactor. I definitely realize that my PO4 would fluctuate so much with even 1/3 the recommended amount of gfo, but it does. I can totally see how I am chasing test results without really looking for a specific number.

Do you ramp up and down?
May I suggest to lowering or turning off the red and green spectrum. White light has them both in it and that may be enough. I set mine at 6% and 12% respectfully.
So your ~300 par is with the t5?
I don't have those lights but I would think they can punch a lot more than that. I recently visited a members tank in my club and he's getting 700 par with radions. I'm pretty sure he has Gen 5.
You are doing the right thing (well, could be a debate) in doing longer period/lower par; shorter period/higher par.

Yes it ramps up and down. My par is 300 par with T5s, yes. I wanted it to be about there with T5s during peak time. I hardly have them up in intensity. I honestly don't know what the right thing is at this point haha.

Some good advice in this thread. I'd take it and hope for a speedy recovery of those frags.

If your phosphate really is .12, my guess is that the phosphate has been yo-yo-ing wildly up and down due to being stripped and leaching out repeatedly, as the frags' skin is thin and looks even thinner on the slimer (in the second photo).

That algae isn't a big deal. I'd use a cleanup crew rather than GFO or anything else to artificially augment phosphate or even nitrate. I'd also stop testing phosphate and nitrate.

Bud, that's the definition of chasing numbers.

Do you understand what these folks mean by thin skin? If you look at a healthy sps, even if just a tiny frag, the skin should look thick and plump, rather than thin and nearly see-through.

I am 100% taking it. GFO is shut down, and I am going to put down the NO3 and PO4 test kits. My phosphate has been definitely yo-yo-ing over the months.

I noticed what everyone is talking about with thin skin now. I guess that is the reason for making this thread. I made it not because I actually thought the frags looked healthy, but because I suspected they weren't and I wanted this discussion to happen.

What is the cause of the thing skin? Stress? GFO itself?

I appreciate everyone's advice here and 100% taking it/going to take it.

 

[sanzz18]

My last question (I think haha), is their any unsafe level of phosphate/nitrates, I guess specifically nitrates. This is pertaining to my livestock, mainly inverts.

Anything I should worry about?

 

[CrunchyBananas]

IMO ,Just like there's advice to not do anything, there's advice to do testing and dosing and chasing numbers , but you need to have some knowledge of what your doing, most are not quite there yet, thats why it's just easier to give the advice to do nothing ,feed more do waterchanges stuff like that, but its totally possible to chase around numbers(aiming for any set parameter is technically chasing numbers) that's how you hit the target, but if you don't know how to shoot, then here's a shotgun and just point it that way with water changes.

Your phosphates might be higher than that test is showing, or maybe very intense lights , i almost see the start of them getting brown, the green slimer in that last picture compared to the first video lost a bit of its green color, with an overall brown tint, I see the green hair algae is "healthy looking" and very thick forming in most rock cracks. gfo does work but in a system going from never using it, a very small amount must be used with low flow (gph) for the the first week or two, the issues with gfo is how fast it strips because it's so efficient or used to aggressively and the system has never had it before, it needs to adjust, think months to lower levels not days unfortunately its usually days with most implications because it does work so well. In the beginning sometimes a timer or one day on one day off works good for example. There are tons of ways to do anything but I like to test and adjust and act if I see something going on. "Chasing it"

Yup, why I asked phosphates, imo it looks like phosphate stress on the acros, I agree with this approach as well

 

[Rick5]

My last question (I think haha), is their any unsafe level of phosphate/nitrates, I guess specifically nitrates. This is pertaining to my livestock, mainly inverts.

Anything I should worry about?

You’re less likely to hit that threshold, particularly if you’re feeding sensibly, skimming and aren’t using unnecessary additives. Most/many tanks today need more nitrate and (mostly) phosphate than in the past. A lot of the emergency help threads involving poor sps health have a common denominator and that’s too aggressive nutrient control and/or a lack of throughput.

I happened upon a recent exception to this that is the subject of another post. However, your tank doesn’t appear to fall in that minority camp.

Remind me, is this a dry rock set up? LEDs?

I would stabilize your tank’s phosphate at around .1, and feed a set amount of food that’s sensible and consistent.

 

[sanzz18]

You’re less likely to hit that threshold, particularly if you’re feeding sensibly, skimming and aren’t using unnecessary additives. Most/many tanks today need more nitrate and (mostly) phosphate than in the past. A lot of the emergency help threads involving poor sps health have a common denominator and that’s too aggressive nutrient control and/or a lack of throughput.

I happened upon a recent exception to this that is the subject of another post. However, your tank doesn’t appear to fall in that minority camp.

Remind me, is this a dry rock set up? LEDs?

I would stabilize your tank’s phosphate at around .1, and feed a set amount of food that’s sensible and consistent.

Awesome thanks for the input. It was a dry rock setup and has LED\T5 hybrid. I literally can’t stabilize my tank around 0.1 without utilizing GFO or something. Just going to let it go where it wants to go.

@Charlie’s Frags , I was looking online to order turbo snails like you suggested. Were you suggesting Mexican turbo snails or astrea (I think they are sometimes referred to as turbos).

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Awesome thanks for the input. It was a dry rock setup and has LED\T5 hybrid. I literally can’t stabilize my tank around 0.1 without utilizing GFO or something. Just going to let it go where it wants to go.

@Charlie’s Frags , I was looking online to order turbo snails like you suggested. Were you suggesting Mexican turbo snails or astrea (I think they are sometimes referred to as turbos).

Both. Trochus too. Maybe some tuxedo urchins as well.

 

[Rick5]

Check out Reeftopia.

 

[BirdFish5000]

Both. Trochus too. Maybe some tuxedo urchins as well.

+1 on the tuxedos, for sure.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

Remember to glue your frags down good if you get tuxedos, I got some mysterious scratches in my glass and frags were always moved around with them.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Remember to glue your frags down good if you get tuxedos, I got some mysterious scratches in my glass and frags were always moved around with them.

True
Mine carry around whatever isn’t glued down

 

[sanzz18]

Both. Trochus too. Maybe some tuxedo urchins as well.

Cool thanks. I have trochus they just bred in the tank recently too but don't have as many as I would like. I have two tuxedos already but they are small so maybe I need more since I have a 6ft tank with a decent amount of rockwork.

Check out Reeftopia.

I checked them out, seems like they have good prices but a smaller variety of CUC compared to reefcleaners.

+1 on the tuxedos, for sure.

Yeah might have to add to the two I got.

 

[sanzz18]

Update/question:

Upon further research and talking with John from reef cleaners, I have determined that I have maidens hair algae. This was with the help of microscope and the fact that it is not fern-like (Bryopsis). I majority of inverts/fish don't eat it because it can be toxic. The good news is that flucanzole works on it. Bad news is that when I use it and it dies off, it will cause a further phosphate spike.

My gfo is still currently off like recommended. I did a baseline testing of nitrates and phosphates since I am going to use the fluconazole. I want to make sure its not insanely high before I do so. PO4 are 0.23 and NO3 are 17.3. Should I worry about a further large spike from die off if I use this since it is already bouncing back up after shutting off GFO? If it does, should I be worried about possibly utilizing anything to keep the nutrients within a reasonable level?

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Update/question:

Upon further research and talking with John from reef cleaners, I have determined that I have maidens hair algae. This was with the help of microscope and the fact that it is not fern-like (Bryopsis). I majority of inverts/fish don't eat it because it can be toxic. The good news is that flucanzole works on it. Bad news is that when I use it and it dies off, it will cause a further phosphate spike.

My gfo is still currently off like recommended. I did a baseline testing of nitrates and phosphates since I am going to use the fluconazole. I want to make sure its not insanely high before I do so. PO4 are 0.23 and NO3 are 17.3. Should I worry about a further large spike from die off if I use this since it is already bouncing back up after shutting off GFO? If it does, should I be worried about possibly utilizing anything to keep the nutrients within a reasonable level?

Are your corals looking better since you turned off the gfo?

 

[sanzz18]

Are your corals looking better since you turned off the gfo?

Unfortunately no. I believe my alk having an uncontrolled rise from just under 8dkh to currently 9.3-9.6 coupled with me stripping the phosphate too fast when I changed my gfo really did a number on the frags. The only frags out of that entire rack still doing pretty good is my purple sanjay and pink caddy from TCk. Video is below.

Let me know what you think about whether or not I should manage the nutrients when I dose the fluconazole if I have a spike.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Unfortunately no. I believe my alk having an uncontrolled rise from just under 8dkh to currently 9.3-9.6 coupled with me stripping the phosphate too fast when I changed my gfo really did a number on the frags. The only frags out of that entire rack still doing pretty good is my purple sanjay and pink caddy from TCk. Video is below.

Let me know what you think about whether or not I should manage the nutrients when I dose the fluconazole if I have a spike.

They don’t look good. Giving me flashbacks of when I was following the “sps recipe”

I believe you will lose most of those if you dose flucozanole bc they are already really stressed.

What all are you dosing?

 

[sanzz18]

They don’t look good. Giving me flashbacks of when I was following the “sps recipe”

I believe you will lose most of those if you dose flucozanole bc they are already really stressed.

What all are you dosing?

What alk? If that is what you meant I am not dosing anything at all right now into this tank because of this spike. It has been 3 weeks since I dosed 2-part. I do not dose any supplement or food in the tank currently.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

What alk? If that is what you meant I am not dosing anything at all right now into this tank because of this spike. It has been 3 weeks since I dosed 2-part. I do not dose any supplement or food in the tank currently.

Good
No vibrant or carbon dosing or anything like that?

 

[BirdFish5000]

I'd say away from the fluconazole as well. It hammered my acros <hard> and they were healthy. Would almost certainly kill stressed ones.

 

[sanzz18]

Good
No vibrant or carbon dosing or anything like that?

No sir, nothing.

I'd say away from the fluconazole as well. It hammered my acros <hard> and they were healthy. Would almost certainly kill stressed ones.

Oh I heard nothing but great things about it IF you have to use it with very few bad things said about it.

Maybe I should use it since I am counting most of these frags as a loss already .