Started LC dosing but paranoid lol

[slythy]

I am burning through $100’s of dollars in GFO trying to pull out bound Phosphate in my 275g reef. I am dosing 5ml of TM elimiphos rapid into a 5micron sock and the next chamber is the skimmer section. I do have a lot of Tangs and they all seem fine 4 hours after the dose but just worried lol.

Is there anyway to make it safer? I assume the small dose helps….

Someone make me feel better lol

 

[JGT]

Spread out the dosing over time vs. 1 dose. Especially with a 275 , that 5 ml may need to be increased to get your PO4 where you want it.

 

[slythy]

Spread out the dosing over time vs. 1 dose. Especially with a 275 , that 5 ml may need to be increased to get your PO4 where you want it.

5ml should be .05ppm. Just starting slow to see id i can measure a change. I bought a drip bag so tomorrow plan to drip that with 250ml over 2 hours into the sock.

Thanks!

 

[JGT]

As you increase the dosage, stretch it out over 12 or 24 hours. Makes for more consistent PO4 levels.

 

[slythy]

As you increase the dosage, stretch it out over 12 or 24 hours. Makes for more consistent PO4 levels.

My plan is once i get it sub 0.1 i will use gfo to maintain. Just spending way too much getting it out of the rocks.

 

[fish_collector]

How high is it? My successful sps tank runs at 0.35. I'm not proud of that but it is where its been hovering for a while. The corals are fine with it. I will never resort to LC to bring it down.

 

[slingfox]

I am burning through $100’s of dollars in GFO trying to pull out bound Phosphate in my 275g reef. I am dosing 5ml of TM elimiphos rapid into a 5micron sock and the next chamber is the skimmer section. I do have a lot of Tangs and they all seem fine 4 hours after the dose but just worried lol.

Is there anyway to make it safer? I assume the small dose helps….

Someone make me feel better lol

When I dosed lanthanum chloride I diluted the drops with RODi into a 500ml IV bag (you can find them on Amazon since they are sold to drip feed pants). I set the bag to drip slowly into a 5 micron sock over 24 hours. I had water flowing into the sock.

 

[mulsky]

I use continuous dosing stepper motor pump with adjustable dose rate (ml per day). LC is fed into reactor with the outlet to the skimmer. I've noticed that precipitate forms already in the feeding fitting, gradually clogging it, so the reactor with micron filter isn't even necessary in this case, you can simply feed It into the skimmer inlet.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’m not sure what exactly matters for lanthanum risk to tangs, and so am not sure what things help.

If it is particulates that are harmful, then dosing into a sock, skimmer or other way to remove the precipitate may help. Note that even if it is particles that are the issue, the harmful ones may be too small to filter out mechanically and that may be where a skimmer may be best.

If it is dissolved lanthanum that is harmful, then slow, dilute dosing may be best to minimize it.

 

[jmcdona6]

I have been dosing 5-10ml into a 150G+ tanks for years with no issues. Sometimes if I have the time I will break a 10ml dose into two 5ml doses over the course of a day. But sometimes I go all in. Always dose into either a sock or roller filter chamber.

Multiple tangs, never had any issue.

 

[BeanAnimal]

The effects on my tangs were not instant, but rather cumulative. By the time they were noticed, progressive nested fine micron socks didn't make a difference. Stopping for weeks or months and letting the lesions heal didn't help either. Each time that I started back the damage happened faster.

I can't tell you what mechanism was doing the damage, but the lateral line, snout and gill plate areas were the worst. Lesions, peeling flesh, rubbing on rocks, etc.

 

[areefer01]

If you are paranoid as you described then don't do it.

With regards to GFO you can look on ebay as there is a 10 lb box for 99 USD.

If you are serious on LC use, I suggest using your favorite search engine and reading through the LC thread on reef central. Mid 2000, 2008, forget exactly but we have discussed this in great length. Well worth the time.

 

[jmcdona6]

The effects on my tangs were not instant, but rather cumulative. By the time they were noticed, progressive nested fine micron socks didn't make a difference. Stopping for weeks or months and letting the lesions heal didn't help either. Each time that I started back the damage happened faster.

I can't tell you what mechanism was doing the damage, but the lateral line, snout and gill plate areas were the worst. Lesions, peeling flesh, rubbing on rocks, etc.

I've heard similar stories as well. Its interesting the different outcomes. I have a hippo tang with pretty bad HLLE but it was that way before dosing LC and after...no matter what I do with diet, water parameters, carbon...the whole book of options...it is just a fat otherwise healthy tang with HLLE. No other tang has any issues.

Putting on my science cap I wonder if (A) not all sources of LC are created equal - i.e. contaminants or (B) if there is something that some of us are doing differently to create a different outcomes from a dosing/chemical reaction standpoint. I bet it would be really hard to nail down either way...which is a shame because for those that LC works well for its a miracle solution.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Putting on my science cap I wonder if (A) not all sources of LC are created equal - i.e. contaminants or (B) if there is something that some of us are doing differently to create a different outcomes from a dosing/chemical reaction standpoint. I bet it would be really hard to nail down either way...which is a shame because for those that LC works well for its a miracle solution.

It is unclear why most folks do not have a lanthanum issue with fish, and a few do. It would be very nice to have a better understanding.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I can't answer those questions.

My Tangs healed when I stopped LC and were injured when I restarted. I tried numerous methods of dilution, dosing and collection. The results were always the same and the effects compounding over time.

I kept fairly detailed logs that were lost in a notebook that got water damaged a few years later. I am not sure that the logs would have helped with any understanding.

It has been years, but I am pretty sure that the product was SeaKlear. It was packaged in a quart bottle with built in measurement chamber. The MSDS listed the only ingredient as Lanthanum Chloride. It is possible that there could be contamination or unpure LaCl depending on the source I suppose.

 

[areefer01]

It has been years, but I am pretty sure that the product was SeaKlear. It was packaged in a quart bottle with built in measurement chamber. The MSDS listed the only ingredient as Lanthanum Chloride. It is possible that there could be contamination or unpure LaCl depending on the source I suppose.

SeaKlear is one of the products we used in the RC thread I mentioned earlier. I use it since it is cheaper but I mix a more diluted product and use that.

I am not a product manufacture or chemist but I can't imagine some of the smaller vendors in our hobby making something on their own to sale. My opinion is that they are buying a product, diluting it, and putting their brand on it and calling it their own.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I am not a product manufacture or chemist but I can't imagine some of the smaller vendors in our hobby making something on their own to sale. My opinion is that they are buying a product, diluting it, and putting their brand on it and calling it their own.

I agree.

That said, I'm also sure that a product for pools is certainly not particularly pure, and they also may frequently switch primary chemical suppliers based on price since an impurity profile for a pool product is not very important.

 

[BryanM]

My plan is once i get it sub 0.1 i will use gfo to maintain. Just spending way too much getting it out of the rocks.

Sub .1 is too low IMO, as bottoming out will cause problems.

Besides the high number are you seeing issues?

Also, and I know this from experience, after you get it where you want it, and you stop the LC treatment, it will almost certainly start to rise again. After a year I still haven't gotten my phos to stabilize.

 

[jmcdona6]

Sub .1 is too low IMO, as bottoming out will cause problems.

Besides the high number are you seeing issues?

Also, and I know this from experience, after you get it where you want it, and you stop the LC treatment, it will almost certainly start to rise again. After a year I still haven't gotten my phos to stabilize.

Of course, it doesn't solve the root cause (nutrient control / balance issues).

What I use it for is to extend out my water changes. I heavy feed and as a result even with a oversized skimmer, ATS, roller mat and a thriving tank my nutrients tend to creep up over time. Nitrate less so for whatever reason so phosphate tends to outpace. I dose LC to keep my phosphate within reason. Eventually my nitrates get to a level I do a week or two of water changes to get things back to good levels. Rinse repeat. I've been able to extend my water changes out to 3-4 months apart while still having the heavy bio load this way.

I used GFO for a little bit but always found I had to tinker a lot so as not to overshoot my target (bottoming out). With LC I know how my tank responds to different doses. I can attack my phosphate in a more targeted way. Takes less than 30 seconds without the hassle of media bags or anything else.