Starting a display refugium

[Susan Edwards]

Decided it’s time to do a refugium. Reasons: Help control nitrates, pod population, possible other critters that I can’t use in dt like sea horses, have a nice planted aquarium with some rock. Much of what I find out on the net is for sump refugiums.

I picked up a 29 gal complete aquarium kit for my display refugium. Assuming I can still run my refuge on opposite light cycle even if there is light in the room from lights and the display tank? Not all that sure of what will go in there but might put a few things that I can’t put in main display. As I can’t put it below (too big), I decided to do a display refugium. Will have to decide if it runs opposite dt or not

My DT tank is a RSM c250 66 gal, so I think a 29 gal will be a good addition, and large enough (more than 50% of water volume which I estimate at 46 gal) to be useful.

I’m assuming I do not need the bio wheel filter. It has LED lights and moonlights and heater, which I also won’t need but nice to have a backup.

The stand I ordered will hold 2 tanks of that size so the smaller quarantine (when I get it) will go on bottom.

It won’t stand tall enough to be able to use gravity to feed back to display which I’d hoped for to protect pods. So I’ll have to get a pump to use for the return

Here are my questions.

-Best way to get water from display sump (built into back of dt) to the refug

--pull water from sump or pull from display. Read elsewhere to use water from display as sump water not as good

-Do I need an over flow box to take water from sump to the refuge and if so, what kind. Do not want to risk flooding so this is a biggie if you all have suggestions

-how do I deal with syphons not breaking or breaking—which end needs to break in case of a power failure. Do not want any chance of flooding.

-Should I when I get one hook up a chiller from this end or keep it separate and use my other return for it.

-PVC pipe or flexible tubing? Stand will be on wall facing tank by the corner. Tank is just under 3 feet from corner, so new stand will be right at the corner. So less than 3 feet separate. Looks are important to me. Whatever I use, I might paint it same color as wall and fasten to the wall with brackets.

-Do I need a separate area for water to come in and go thru filter or just dump into display

-Should I separate a part for an internal return pump or use an external. Might want as much of that tank for the algae and whatever. I don’t need a sump. Just the refugium.

-I might have a bag of caribsea sand. It was live but the dog chewed holes in it so lost much of the water. Assuming it can still be used, just not live anymore.

-have some dry rock left so will put in a piece or two. Esp. the pukani left.

Okay, this is it for now. Probably more I haven't thought of. Stand comes tomorrow, so eager to begin

 

[basile]

Hi you have a great project in front of you. I'm sorry i wont be of much help this time because i'm a bit confused to the way you're going to have your set up done. A picture of a plan is worth a thousand words. It would be helpful not only to me but to others to see what you're trying to do.

I have a display refugium a 75 G for a 150 reef tank all gravity ran. here you can check out the plans and the set up .

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/m...y-my-150g-starfire-reef-tank-build-up.140843/

For the videos here .

Good luck .

 

[Susan Edwards]

@basile I saw your posts on the net searches and that is in part what inspired me. I get my stand tomorrow so will take pics of where both tanks are in relationship to each other and a pic of the sump area of the rms. I'm excited to do this but nervous as well....

 

[basile]

@basile I saw your posts on the net searches and that is in part what inspired me. I get my stand tomorrow so will take pics of where both tanks are in relationship to each other and a pic of the sump area of the rms. I'm excited to do this but nervous as well....

No worries; make a plan and it always helps to see where you're going and usually we discover mistake before hand. Plus post your plan here that be helpful for us to look at. Use the paint program that's what i used simple and easy to erase and start over lol. Your plan will also help you decide about your pumping. plumbing and the kind of pump you'll have to buy.

 

[Susan Edwards]

Okay, here is what I have so far. No diagrams but pics. This first pic is the front view of my sump as though the tank wasn't there and the glass is black of course. My thoughts to add a overflow box from sump to refuge will not work. First, there is no place to put it and no room or access to add. (There are glass baffles separating each chamber. Above #6, that black plastic with the hole in it for cords allows no access from outside to that chamber above foam block, and the side of #10 is too narrow.) On top of that, the sump is a good 3 + inches lower to allow for flood control, and the overflow boxes aren't deep enough to reach to water level.
.
That means no gravity feed to refuguim as I'd want a cs overflow box. So I guess I need to use the chiller accessory (#10) to go to the refugium. I don't have a chiller yet. There are 2 ways I think I can do this.
#1 use a separate pump as shown (#11). when I add a chiller, change plumbing to go to chiller than to refugium and back to tank however
#2 Use the return pump (#7) to go to the refugium, and then a pump to go back to that return, reserving the chiller area for a chiller later.

To return to main display: Pump from refuge directly into the main tank with a pipe or tube that drops down, releasing water lower into tank (for any pods that make it through and to keep pumps and foam blocks from being clogged with stuff from refuge. I'd use some kind of nozzle/spray bar to keep flow from disrupting sand bed). See some questions return water to main tank below.

Next pictures after this one of my sump are of my tank setups.
.

Okay, the dt is approx 37" long.
From end of tank to Wall approx 34"
From end of tank to front of refugium 20"
From floor to top of refuge: 50"
Main tank just under 60" with top of sump 4 inches lower

Plumbing outlet would run from the side with the red sea logo to the refuge and back again. Below the refuge will be the quarentine tank. Right now I have a 10 not set up and may upgrade to a 20. It would be separate plumbed of course.

So my choices at this point to get water back to main tank: if there are more choices):
#1 Use internal pump to go back to dt (and make sure nothing gets sucked in (much like I pump water into main tank with water changes
--This method means I need either an overflow box inside one corner or a weir/baffle separating the main refuge from submersible pump or use a hang on back box
--Read that you shouldn't have 2 pumps for a refugium--pump either to or from but not both and use gravity for the other. I can't see how I can use gravity
#2 Use an external pump to somehow pump to the back of main tank, either into the sump or into the tank itself
--Can't really find any external water pumps or see how to do this. Seems like I'd have to drain into a small canister filter that will pump water back to main display. If I did this, I'd use rubble inside only to protect pods. I don't need a large one--just need to to the 3 feet to the main tank and the lift is less than 10 inches or so

Advantage of external pump or canister is it will keep heat out of that small tank. Esp. with no chiller yet. I will add a fan to the display and another one to the main to put off the chiller as long as possible.
https://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Aqua...UTF8&qid=1489456675&sr=1-20&keywords=chillers

So pros and cons?
Suggested products?
Does any of this make sense? any help or suggests welcome and will clarify if I'm not clear here. It's a lot to think about and try to put into words <g>

 

[Susan Edwards]

Actually, a canister filter wouldn't need an overflow box I don't think. It would pull water down.

 

[Susan Edwards]

Okay, after much research, I've come up with 2 possibles for plumbing.

#1. build up my stand with concrete blocks so the refuge is slightly higher than the sump in the main tank. This allows me to use a powerhead pump in the main sump to the refuge. And then an overflow box back to the display tank.

#2 Keep refuge lower and try to figure out how to put an overflow on main sump to drain into refuge and return pump back to main tank

I've read that the first option is less prone to floods, because if the pump fails, no additional water is supplied to the refugium. But what if the overflow box fails on the refuge. Wouldn't the main tank keep pumping into the 29 gal refuge? And really flood?

I'd like to go with option 1 as I can get pods into my main tank without going through a pump.

Also, when I add a chiller, can I tee off the pump in the sump and split the water so most goes to the chiller and then some to the refuge who only needs 30 gal per hour flow rate

 

[Susan Edwards]

I think I found a solution to using my pump and avoiding any flooding using this float valve kit http://www.aquahub.com/store/product67.html
any opions? This way, if the water level drops in the sump, it shuts just that return pump off. When I feed and do wc's it should be okay if the water level rises to the high point but it shouldn't ever drop below the set low point.

Opinions?

 

[Susan Edwards]

oops, I'd put it in the refuge and water level reaches, it shuts pump down...

 

[Susan Edwards]

Had to return first refuge 29 gal tank as hood defective and they didn't call to say another tank came in on friday. turns out they had a 37 gal 28 bucks cheaper on sale with the same footprint. Score!! It's ready to add sand and water. Irritated that there is a sticker stuck between top trim and glass and I didn't see until after I painted. Going back to petsmart to see if they'll give a discount. who would put a sticker at the top? Should have been at the bottom.... Hood totally sucks. One piece. I have to take it off to get into tank. Will look into just lights and no hood. Can't believe that either.

Otherwise, I think i'm all set once everything gets here to do plumbing. Going to start it up on it's own with the hob filter for now. Need overflow box and hubby needs to do the float box that hooks to the pump I'll use. Oh, guess I need one of those yet too. No water yet. what you see is the main tank reflection

also included drawing I did of the plumbings

 

[Miketay89]

I think I followed your thoughts. What was throwing me off is your sump. It must be on the back of the main aquarium? And not below it? I'm not familiar with that aquarium system.
What you have come up with seems like it will work great as long as your overflow on the fuge is high enough to gravity feed back to the main tank. I like the addition of the float valve. The part to watch out for is the supply line into the fuge during a power loss a syphon could form there if below the waterline. May want to do a power failure test after you get it set up.

 

[Susan Edwards]

@Miketay89 Yes, there is an image a few posts above showing the sump which is behind the tank--same size in length and a bit shorter and 5 inches deep. Will have to think how the water will empty into the fuge to avoid a back syphon. Any ideas? I could set up a spray bar or something else where the water falls into the refuge. It needs to be low flow anyway, and if I need more, I can add a power head. I'm big on preventing floods.... I think the fuge is high enough for gravity. Only way to find out is to set it up and if not, empty tank and add another piece of wood. Measurement wise it's 2-3 inches taller from sump to fill line of refuge. Off to ck internet for macro algae to order.

 

[Susan Edwards]

I am assuming I do not want to put any of my display tank water into my refuge until the cyano is gone. I do a water change tomorrow at the 48 hr mark. I'm willing to bet I need to do another treatment. Need to find out if I can retreat immed. or put carbons back in and give it a few days before retreating. Skimmer has been running. Directions on box said not to turn off just remove box. I did until the skim settled.

I had planned to start the fuge with half tank water, and half fresh. And to add a bit of my tank sand to get the refugium off to faster start and to avoid having to start a new cycle. My plan until I can use tank water is to start it. And when ready to hook up the two tanks, I'll do a fifty percent water change and refill with tank water as I add fresh salt water to the main tank

 

[basile]

I think I followed your thoughts. What was throwing me off is your sump. It must be on the back of the main aquarium? And not below it? I'm not familiar with that aquarium system.
What you have come up with seems like it will work great as long as your overflow on the fuge is high enough to gravity feed back to the main tank. I like the addition of the float valve. The part to watch out for is the supply line into the fuge during a power loss a syphon could form there if below the waterline. May want to do a power failure test after you get it set up.

Wow you've been busy, lol. I second this little concern. Keep going its going to be great. Do you know where you'll get your macro's if you don't here's a place with great service and their delivery is efficient. http://live-plants.com/index.htm Look at their free guide also lots of information on that page about the differences between red , green and brown algaes.

 

[Miketay89]

@Miketay89 Yes, there is an image a few posts above showing the sump which is behind the tank--same size in length and a bit shorter and 5 inches deep.

you know I read the word sump and thought it was under the tank. My mind wouldn't let me see that it was an AIO.
Just a hole slightly under the water level to break the syphon after it starts should do the trick for you.

 

[Susan Edwards]

Okay, here are the return jets I've ordered for each tank (hoping they will work). There is a small hole to break syphon. I'll be testing! And I'll put it just barely under.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B018J3RHF0/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=

Do I need to use the hang on back filter on the fuge? Is there any advantage to doing so? It has a bio plate and carbon. I have another one that is a bio wheel (forgot to return it with other tank).

Ordered a pump for the flow to the refuge last night. I'll have to put a valve on the line to cut the flow rate until I get a chiller and split to both.

Thanks @basile for the link. My lfs (an hour away!) doesn't have any in stock so will ck this site and put in an order. What can we do to prevent hitchhikers in plants? corals we dip but what about plants. Or do we not care? Don't want any nasty critters yet I also have no bristle worms or other good critters.

 

[basile]

Okay, here are the return jets I've ordered for each tank (hoping they will work). There is a small hole to break syphon. I'll be testing! And I'll put it just barely under.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B018J3RHF0/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=

Do I need to use the hang on back filter on the fuge? Is there any advantage to doing so? It has a bio plate and carbon. I have another one that is a bio wheel (forgot to return it with other tank).

Ordered a pump for the flow to the refuge last night. I'll have to put a valve on the line to cut the flow rate until I get a chiller and split to both.

Thanks @basile for the link. My lfs (an hour away!) doesn't have any in stock so will ck this site and put in an order. What can we do to prevent hitchhikers in plants? corals we dip but what about plants. Or do we not care? Don't want any nasty critters yet I also have no bristle worms or other good critters.

I rinse them with tap water then RODI water problem solved. Any critters touching tap or RODI will explode lol. The algae is not affected since it doesn't linger in those waters.

 

[Susan Edwards]

Going to add sand today. I have 40 lbs for a 30 long, 12.5 deep. Should I make this a deep sand bed? If so I'll have to run to petsmart for another bag.

 

[Susan Edwards]

great idea @basile

 

[basile]

Going to add sand today. I have 40 lbs for a 30 long, 12.5 deep. Should I make this a deep sand bed? If so I'll have to run to petsmart for another bag.

Noooooo no deep sand bed, very bad ideal. Lots of problem can occur with more than 4 inch, i have 1 1/2 inch and that's plenty.