Still battling Phosphates…

[slythy]

For the last couple month or so on my 300g system i have been replacing the rowaphos every 3-5 days and cant get my phosphates down. Each time I am using about 8 tablespoon in a reactor and tumbling it. They hover between 0.25-0.35. I would like to get them under 0.10 again.

My daily feeding is about 2 teaspoons of pellets and 3 frozen cubes. It doesnt seem like a lot for that size tank.

Other info
Fuge has been on 24/7
Socks changed on Sunday and Wednesday.

How long should this take? I am worried about using LC with all my tangs…

 

[BriansBrain]

For the last couple month or so on my 300g system i have been replacing the rowaphos every 3-5 days and cant get my phosphates down. Each time I am using about 8 tablespoon in a reactor and tumbling it. They hover between 0.25-0.35. I would like to get them under 0.10 again.

My daily feeding is about 2 teaspoons of pellets and 3 frozen cubes. It doesnt seem like a lot for that size tank.

Other info
Fuge has been on 24/7
Socks changed on Sunday and Wednesday.

How long should this take? I am worried about using LC with all my tangs…

A high phosphate issue is a fundamental feeding issue. Period.

It took me years and unfortunately crashing my acro system to finally figure that out. I went “back to the basics” approach afterwards and revisited tons of Jake Adams content. He was stern that we feed wayy too much.

Even in a 300, 2 teaspoons of pellet and 3 cubes daily is a ton of food imo especially if you’re having phosphate issues. Not sure of your coral load.

I’d suggest cut to 1/2 teaspoon pellets 2x per day along with nori daily. Cut down frozen feedings to only once or twice max per week and definitely rinse it prior to feeding. Your fish aren’t going to starve and your phosphates should start heading down.

 

[commod0re]

Something I try to keep in mind is that a fish’s stomach is about the size of one of their eyes so that should allow you to estimate approximately how much food will actually fill them all up

 

[Homewrecker]

Lanthanum

 

[Hyzu]

For the last couple month or so on my 300g system i have been replacing the rowaphos every 3-5 days and cant get my phosphates down. Each time I am using about 8 tablespoon in a reactor and tumbling it. They hover between 0.25-0.35. I would like to get them under 0.10 again.

My daily feeding is about 2 teaspoons of pellets and 3 frozen cubes. It doesnt seem like a lot for that size tank.

Other info
Fuge has been on 24/7
Socks changed on Sunday and Wednesday.

How long should this take? I am worried about using LC with all my tangs…

A high phosphate issue is a fundamental feeding issue. Period.

It took me years and unfortunately crashing my acro system to finally figure that out. I went “back to the basics” approach afterwards and revisited tons of Jake Adams content. He was stern that we feed wayy too much.

Even in a 300, 2 teaspoons of pellet and 3 cubes daily is a ton of food imo especially if you’re having phosphate issues. Not sure of your coral load.

I’d suggest cut to 1/2 teaspoon pellets 2x per day along with nori daily. Cut down frozen feedings to only once or twice max per week and definitely rinse it prior to feeding. Your fish aren’t going to starve and your phosphates should start heading down.

This is how I feed my fish, it's taken some time for me to fight the urge to feed more. My phosphates have stayed pretty steady at .07. Feeding just enough for the fish and some so my lps corals get some as well.

 

[Peer.Boerner]

One other consideration. Don’t know if this is true, so sharing just in case. Be sure to rinse your nitrate and phosphate test vials with rodi water. Given the small samples we use and the high resolution of the tests, left over tap water residue could impact your results.

 

[tzabor10]

I also struggle with this. Recently started vacuuming gravel every week. Put in GFO with Rowaphos to boost performance. Currently using two BRS reactors. The other has phosguard. Honestly I’m trying to get to your levels.

 

[Sdbuehler1]

I use both phosphate-e ( lanthanum chloride ) and Rowaphos to keep phosphate levels down in my 180 gallon. I have 3 tangs and have not seen any ill effects with the phosphate-e but I dose it into the reef mat chamber and never dose more than 5 ml at a time.

I use the phosphate-e if my phosphate gets way above 0.10 and then the Rowaphos to try to maintain my levels. I use about 200 grams of Rowaphos in my reactor which is replaced monthly. That is a little over a cup. 8 tablespoons is slightly under 3/4 of a cup for comparison and you’re dealing with much higher phosphates in a larger tank.

I have mostly small coral frags in my tank and I have a harem of 6 anthias so I pellet feed twice a day to keep the aggression down which is probably the major source of my phosphates.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I personally wouldn’t do anything to lower phosphate since all methods have drawbacks and your current levels are fine, in my opinion.

But if I did want to lower them, this is my general advice.

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/randy’s-thoughts-on-nutrient-target-ranges.1087/

4. What targets seem reasonable? Of course, that depends on all the other factors at play, such as types of corals, availability of ammonia, particulate foods, etc. However, for a mature mixed reef, this would be how I personally would run it:

• Let nitrate float between 5 ppm and 50 ppm. I’d use gentle export in this range, such as growing macroalgae.
• Above 50 ppm, I’d begin to focus more on reducing it, by organic carbon dosing, turf or macroalgae, etc.
• Below 5 ppm, I’d begin to dose ammonia or feed more. The target level might drop lower if dosing ammonia, just like the heavy in/heavy out scenario where nitrate may not be as needed.
• Let phosphate float between about 0.06 ppm and 0.3 ppm. This range is higher than I’ve recommended in the past. I’d use gentle export in this range, such as growing macroalgae.
• Above about 0.3 ppm, I’d begin to focus more on reducing it, by turf or macroalgae, or a binder such as GFO or lanthanum (has its own risks to tangs). If a binder: GO SLOW. Turf and macroalgae will typically be slow enough.
• Below 0.06 ppm, I’d begin to dose sodium phosphate or feed more to get the level up.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Lanthanum

The primary drawback to lanthanum is a risk to fish, such as tangs.

 

[Featherweight]

If one has to remove phosphate, it's because it's being added somewhere. Stop adding it

 

[slythy]

A high phosphate issue is a fundamental feeding issue. Period.

It took me years and unfortunately crashing my acro system to finally figure that out. I went “back to the basics” approach afterwards and revisited tons of Jake Adams content. He was stern that we feed wayy too much.

Even in a 300, 2 teaspoons of pellet and 3 cubes daily is a ton of food imo especially if you’re having phosphate issues. Not sure of your coral load.

I’d suggest cut to 1/2 teaspoon pellets 2x per day along with nori daily. Cut down frozen feedings to only once or twice max per week and definitely rinse it prior to feeding. Your fish aren’t going to starve and your phosphates should start heading down.

I have a ton of fish and to keep them happy I do feed them a bit. I can cut back a little bit. Its probably less than a teaspoon but its a done by a AFS with a small opening. The frozen is done with an autofeeder as well. Im just trying to fatten up my copperband butterfly. Then cut back. But i can go to 2 feedings on that as well no problem.

Something I try to keep in mind is that a fish’s stomach is about the size of one of their eyes so that should allow you to estimate approximately how much food will actually fill them all up

Theres over 20 fish total and some are pretty large. Most of it gets eaten and the rest goes to the clean up crew.

This is how I feed my fish, it's taken some time for me to fight the urge to feed more. My phosphates have stayed pretty steady at .07. Feeding just enough for the fish and some so my lps corals get some as well.

I def can cut back a bit….. just wanting to fatten up my copperband

One other consideration. Don’t know if this is true, so sharing just in case. Be sure to rinse your nitrate and phosphate test vials with rodi water. Given the small samples we use and the high resolution of the tests, left over tap water residue could impact your results.

I always rince with tap then do a rince with tank water then do the sample. Not sure if thats good enough or not.

If one has to remove phosphate, it's because it's being added somewhere. Stop adding it

Still need to feed the fish but I get what you are saying. Im not dosing phosphates or anything lol. I think my rocks are so bound full of them its taking forever to pull it out….

 

[CHSUB]

They hover between 0.25-0.35. I would like to get them under 0.10 again

I’m curious why the reduction?

 

[exnisstech]

I'm flashing 0.9 on my Hanna ULR this morning. Tank looks good so I'm not sure if I'll take action or not Two of my tangs have been with me 8+ and 9+ years and are fat and healthy so I'm not willing to cut back on feedings. I'm half tempted to stop testing and just watch the tank but I haven't decided yet.

Pic from today. Pardon the dirty glass, cleaning it is on my to-do list.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

If one has to remove phosphate, it's because it's being added somewhere. Stop adding it

Since foods are the primary source in most tanks, and it is a necessary part of foods, stopping feeding or feeding less is often not the best choice.

 

[slythy]

I’m curious why the reduction?

Its 95% sps. Im getting less coloration and polyp extension. Since its been elevated. Just i get decent growth on some and others are stagnant.

 

[CHSUB]

Its 95% sps. Im getting less coloration and polyp extension. Since its been elevated. Just i get decent growth on some and others are stagnant.

Yes, a very valid reason. Imo, SPS do best in terms of color and growth when po4 is ~ < 0.08 ppm. I had good success lowering po4 with GFO, however it is with one tenth the tank volume and a lightly fed, fully stocked system. Problem is aggressive use of GFO Ime has unintended and unknown consequences. Properly used lanthanum seems like the best option, but I to am scared to use it. This is an example of priorities in the hobby since imo your po4 level is reasonable however corals could definitely benefit from a lower level….just me thinking!

 

[BriansBrain]

Since foods are the primary source in most tanks, and it is a necessary part of foods, stopping feeding or feeding less is often not the best choice.

I don’t think they meant to stop feeding obviously but that amount of food daily is the direct root cause of high nutrients trending upwards over time in the first place.

Cutting back on feeding and finding a baseline nutrient import to nutrient uptake/export is important. If you want to bring down (veryyy slowly at tiny dosages) phosphate with gfo or LC that’s totally cool but you need to find that balance to keep it from always wanting to trend back upwards.

If not, you’re in a forever battle always dosing LC, using GFO, or running more gear like turf scrubbers. Personally I’d rather feed less over buying, maintaining, and running chemicals and more equipment over time.

 

[Featherweight]

If one has to remove phosphate, it's because it's being added somewhere. Stop adding it

Since foods are the primary source in most tanks, and it is a necessary part of foods, stopping feeding or feeding less is often not the best choice.

Cmon now. Are you suggesting there's only one amount to feed, or one type of food and op must just accept that as a necessary input? It's not concerning the system can't process an appropriate amount of food? Why no nuance?

 

[exnisstech]

Its 95% sps. Im getting less coloration and polyp extension. Since its been elevated. Just i get decent growth on some and others are stagnant.

Disregard my reply above, I wasn't aware it was an SPS tank. My SPS tank heavy on acros runs PO4 0.02 - 0.04 and NO3 below 10 ppm. I'm lucky tho and mine runs low naturally requiring dosing occasionally when I see zero.