STN decimates my thriving reef!

CDavmd

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The title says it all. Why did this happen??? several factors at play but I have been unable to reverse it and at this point I am losing every single Acropora in my system :(
Utter frustration!

So to start- I am not a new reefer and I have been at this hobby for a many years. I've mainly kept LPS in the past with a few hardy SPS without any major issues. If you are interested please see my tank build thread in my signature. I gradually shut down my old system which had been running for over a decade as I brought my new system online. The new system is a RSR 425xl- I started it last February-March so it is approaching its one year mark.

It was started with a mixture of Marco premium rock and KPaquatics live rock from Florida. I let it mature for about 4 months before turning on the lights and adding the first fish. The pod population exploded in that time and I avoided all the uglies and essentially never had a turf algae issue. I then added a few of my coral colonies ( mainly LPS) from my old system as well as coralline scrapings. Within a few months the rocks were all completely covered in healthy purple. Coraline really took off so I added a few small frag test SPS. They also took off- quickly encrusting and branching out.

The tank continued to do well with all the coral growing beautifully. I would periodically seed copepods from algae pod as well as amphipods from Florida pets. I fed heavily, did monthly water changes, ran carbon a couple weeks each month. I dosed a little microbacter 7 every couple weeks and daily flatworm stop. My parameters were pretty stable running alkalinity of 8.2 and calcium of 420ish checking with a trident ( and hanna tester before trident was available). My magnesium runs 1360 and Nitrate has held steadily around 5-10. Phosphate for the most part averages 0.08 but I have had some fluctuations from 0.03 to 0.17 at times. Phosphates have never bottomed out but rather I have had a couple times when I was out of town and feeding pellet food where it got as high at .27.

Well during the summer I had an outbreak of ice or velvet- not really sure which. I believe it came from the amphipods I was seeding each month because all the fish had been quarantined with copper prior to introduction. I removed them all and went fallow for about 82 days. During this time I ghost fed the tank and nutrients never bottomed out. The corals and SPS continued to grow rapidly and color up beautifully. You can see some of the growth on my build thread. My Alk/Calcium supplementation was with ATI essentials Pro and the amount needed was getting prohibitive so I set up a calcium reactor running reborn and remag.

In December I started re-introducing the fish. Just prior to doing this I made a slight change to my aquascape and added about 5 pounds of new sand in a few spots. This is when problems first started.

The sand developed golden brown areas which I thought was diatoms and expected. It started looking a little too thick and I noticed some in areas where corals were combating for real estate. I sampled it and to my dread I had a mixture of small cell amphidinium and Ostreopsis. Nutrients were still good if not a little high (phosphate 0.1 and Nitrate 10)-

I took immediate action with siphoning, increasing flow, dosing silicates, and running UV. I also did the Dr. Tims 3 day blackout with Refresh x 3 doses followed by waste-away for 5 doses. This seemed to work and the Dinos disappeared. I kept the UV going for the next 4 weeks. I also stopped water changes for a bit.

I finished adding the fish back and continued to feed heavily which is my custom (probably a little too much). The tank is fairly heavily stocked-

2 clowns
2 firefish
1 midas blenny
1 Dracula goby
1 red fin fairy wrasse
1 flame wrasse
1 melanurus wrasse
1 banana wrasse
1 purple tang ( 3 inches)
1 blue throat trigger (3-4 inches)
2 cleaner shrimp
1 Serpent star
Several trochus, nassarius, nerite snails
1 conch

Sooo I removed the UV around the new year. No obvious Dino's returned but then I noticed some green film like algae on one rock. This was right after a New Years trip during which the tank was fed the Neptune pellet food. My Phosphates were 0.2 when I returned. I did a water change but Several days later the green slime was starting to spread and I realized it was cyano. Around this time I noticed my green slimer coral which had grown into quite the early colony started showing some tissue loss. I trimmed and epoxied the area but it continued. A growing frag just behind it also showed some early STN. Despite trimming, epoxy, etc they both progressed gradually losing all their tissue. I increased flow again, added more carbon, more water changes, refresh and waste away protocol and this seemed to end the cyano but the STN continued. No obvious flatworms on any corals.

I got an ICP test result back around this time. I had sent it before going on vacation. To my surprise the results showed extremely high Antimony!! The level was 26! No idea where this came from. It was not in my RO water ICP test and I can't imagine its in my Salt (I'm using Tropic Marin Pro Reef). Just in case I have sent an ICP on my salt reservoir and it is pending.

Since Antimony is found in plastics I scoured the system. The only thing I could come up with is some ABS 3d printed adapters I had made for my WAV pumps. I removed them, did 6 x 15% water changes, ran chemipure and polyfilter.

I noticed some algae like growth on my sand and checked it under the scope and again saw small cell amphidinium mixed in with diatoms, and all sorts of pods, etc. There were more Dino's than expected so I started the UV again which seems to have knocked them back again.

Despite all this- the STN continues to spread. Red planet near the two previous STN causalities started to go, then several throughout the tank started losing tissue. Some are holding on but others have progressed to RTN. My birds nests, Oregon tort seem unaffected thus far but I am steadily losing all my Acropora. The way it has spread really makes me think of an infection but who knows. All I can surmise is that a series of events initiated this fire and now its going to run its course with the death of all my Acropora.

Things that I think contributed-
1. Dino toxin
2. High organic nutrient due to heavy feeding and re-introduction of fish too quickly (explains the cyano appearance)
3. Cyano toxin (species was the green type that is known to be more toxic)
4. High Phosphate spike during pellet feeding while I was on vacation
5. Antimony pollution???

I've sent another ICP test which is cooking. Also sent a DOC test and Aquabiomics test to see what bacterial species are dominating.
I'm dosing Dr. Tim's ecobalance and doing weekly water changes. Nutrients and chemistry remain stable.
Not sure where to go from here?
 

GlassMunky

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The only thing that comes to my mind is to be weary of those ICP Results, IME they are not accurate at all, and unless you get them often to see trends they won’t really tell you anything.
I sent 2 samples of the same water from the same tank taken on the same day and got wildly different results, so take your results with a grain of salt....
 

Neoalchemist

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You might want to conscider a chemiclean treatment. The anti microbial properties could help to kill whatever strain of bacteria is now travelling from colony to colony. Ive seen a few anecdotal cases recently where chemiclean tretment halted stn and rtn events.
Also Triton just released new treatment for both stn and rtn. They are not very forthcomming on what it does or how. (Antibiotic, oxydizer? Who knows?) But what i think this shows is that the top tear stick heads are comming to the conclusion that both stn and rtn are mocrobial and treatable.
.
 
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CDavmd

CDavmd

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You might want to conscider a chemiclean treatment. The anti microbial properties could help to kill whatever strain of bacteria is now travelling from colony to colony. Ive seen a few anecdotal cases recently where chemiclean tretment halted stn and rtn events.
Also Triton just released new treatment for both stn and rtn. They are not very forthcomming on what it does or how. (Antibiotic, oxydizer? Who knows?) But what i think this shows is that the top tear stick heads are comming to the conclusion that both stn and rtn are mocrobial and treatable.
.

Thats a thought- I was actually thinking of doing the peroxide 14 day treatment described in the cyano thread followed by seeding with Dr. Tims Ecobalance and MB7 in hopes of re-establishing proper bacteria. This assumes that it is a bacterial issue which based on my reading I am becoming more and more convinced.

The way this spread from coral to coral adjacent to each other really argues that this may be the issue. I was considering the Triton STN treatment but thus far I cannot find it in the US. Basically at this point I have very little to lose- my acroporas are melting away without any slowdown.

Thanks for the input!
 

vanpire

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Is this affecting all your SPS or just acros?
 

willieboy240

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The brs 160 had problems when they took out sand a little at a time. They said either go one way or the other and stay that way. They think that something happens when you change in the middle. The corals don’t like it. Even tho all their test show good. That’s one thought.
mike paletta said that when corals grow large the base starts to die off. He doses a drop of strontium everyday to combat that. He says it work. Supposed to be a Europe thing that he learned from his friends.
 

pdxmonkeyboy

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I would send a sample to aquabiometrics to see if you what your bacteria population looks like. Adding all that stuff could have introduced vibrio into your tank.

All those algae problems etc can be caused by off kilter bacteria populations.
 

SeaDweller

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Interesting.

I can tell you I had a cyano issue from dosing both MB7 and ecobalance though. Since I've stopped, it has stopped.
 

Da8

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The only way to stop stn most times is fragging.

For the cause... Can be anything.


You seem to have everything quite clear... So not sure. All my stn episodes come from low nutrients.
Maybe your test are not as accurate, or maybe the availability is not constant.

That with a high all usually creates dangerous stn.

Maybe lower a bit your alk to help while things settle up.

Another thing I would recommend you is to make big balanced water changes


Water changes are our own have you tried turning off and on your computer?

So, frag, lower alk and water change.


Good luck

Ps. For the toxicity of ciano, maybe some quality carbon can help you to eliminate toxins from the water.

Ps2 check your water flow... Maybe it's not enough. Frags usually grow well, but as they grow things can scalate quickly.
 

Skynyrd Fish

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It sounds like things went south after adding your new sand. I would remove it best you can. If antimony is a metal I would run cuprasorb in a reactor on slow flow. You could also add a little chemipure to the reactor. Sorry this is happening, it’s frustrating.
 

Skynyrd Fish

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I also just read your build thread. Nice job. You also put a ca rx on your system and took ati off line. This could also be a source of change causing your issues. I just purchased a clean used geo 618 and am hesitant to use it because my tank is doing great on ati. I hate making any changes when it ain’t broke. I however need to make the change soon or buy more ati.
 

DesertReefT4r

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I would find and remove the plastic that is the source of contamination in the water first off. I do feel your pain, about 6 months ago amphidinium killed all my sps and basically crashed the tank. I had to remove all the sand and kind of reset the tank. I cleaned and reused all my rock and most of the water. I did have some algae issues and ostreopsis a few weeks later but I have been combating both with success. I would never recommend removing the sand unless its causing a major issue in the tank as it destabilizes everything.
 
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CDavmd

CDavmd

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I would send a sample to aquabiometrics to see if you what your bacteria population looks like. Adding all that stuff could have introduced vibrio into your tank.

All those algae problems etc can be caused by off kilter bacteria populations.
Already did....waiting for results
 
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CDavmd

CDavmd

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The only way to stop stn most times is fragging.

For the cause... Can be anything.


You seem to have everything quite clear... So not sure. All my stn episodes come from low nutrients.
Maybe your test are not as accurate, or maybe the availability is not constant.

That with a high all usually creates dangerous stn.

Maybe lower a bit your alk to help while things settle up.

Another thing I would recommend you is to make big balanced water changes


Water changes are our own have you tried turning off and on your computer?

So, frag, lower alk and water change.


Good luck

Ps. For the toxicity of ciano, maybe some quality carbon can help you to eliminate toxins from the water.

Ps2 check your water flow... Maybe it's not enough. Frags usually grow well, but as they grow things can scalate quickly.

Thanks...I'm using Hanna phosphate ULR checker and have an old phosphorus checker and they agree within 0.05, I use both nyos and Red Sea for nitrate and also reasonably agree so I think my nutrient levels are accurate.

I did 6 x 15% water changes but things have continued to go downhill.

I fragged some of my SPS trying to save them. Hopefully they will make it.

I agree and I'm slowly lowering my Alk so as not to stress them any further.

Also running carbon, chemipure, and polyfilter
 
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CDavmd

CDavmd

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I would find and remove the plastic that is the source of contamination in the water first off. I do feel your pain, about 6 months ago amphidinium killed all my sps and basically crashed the tank. I had to remove all the sand and kind of reset the tank. I cleaned and reused all my rock and most of the water. I did have some algae issues and ostreopsis a few weeks later but I have been combating both with success. I would never recommend removing the sand unless its causing a major issue in the tank as it destabilizes everything.

Honestly, I went through the entire tank and sump. I cannot find any plastic other than the ABS WAV adapters I had 3d printed. I have removed them. I am hoping this was the source of the Antimony and I have a new ICP cooking.
 

Cory

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The only thing that comes to my mind is to be weary of those ICP Results, IME they are not accurate at all, and unless you get them often to see trends they won’t really tell you anything.
I sent 2 samples of the same water from the same tank taken on the same day and got wildly different results, so take your results with a grain of salt....
Which company was it?
 

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