Stocklist for a smaller tank?

[Gry]

Hey everyone.
I'm dreaming of one day setting up a reef tank, and would like to "work backwards" and figure out the hardware needs for the tank I would need in order to keep a thriving tank with happy inhabitants. I plan on starting with a small tank, thinking approximately 52 gallons DT (200L) with x gallons sump. As Im not actively buying a tank or stand for a long time (or have even settled on a tank size) I obviously don't know how large the sump would be. I understand larger is better, but now Im straying from the topic.

I have been researching some fish I find interesting, and am wondering if theres any issues I should be aware about, or any considerations I should keep in mind or if other fish might be more compatible. Also, I would like to know if this stocklist is do-able in a 52 gallon DT tank with a sump or if I'll need to go bigger (or cut the list).

Stock list, CUC:

• 10x mexican turbo snails
• 5x Halloween hermit crabs
• 1x cleaner shrimp (pair?)

Should I increase these CUC numbers in a 52, would it be possible to have a sea hare or a cucumber or will it starve to death?

Fish stock list:

• 1x Clownfish pair, standard Percula or Ocellaris (Researching them told me these were the smallest and most mellow types)
• 3x Golden Assessor Basslets
• 1x Flasher Wrasse
• 1x Banggai Cardinal fish (or a mated pair)
• 1x Firefish
• 1x Yellow watchman goby

After a set and fully matured tank:

• 1x Spotted coral croucher
• 1x Red scooter dragonet
• 1x Geometric pygmy hawkfish
• 1x Mandarin

I've been trying to research peaceful small fish, and found these fish interesting for a small tank. Im aware the last fish on the list require a mature environment and has special feeds regarding feeding. My idea was to start with the top of the list and after a couple of years introduce the last 4 over time. Would this be doable with a 52 gallon DT or would I need to go bigger? Would a mature 52 gallon tank be able to support a mandarin, if its competing with some of the other fish on the list? I would want a captive bred fish, which is already trained onto frozen foods but my understanding is they need to peck all day to thrive.

 

[Tamberav]

Stock list looks okay except for the CUC. It lacks diversity and that is a lot of large CUC members. Mexican turbo's are also actually sub-tropical so I don't find them super long lived. I actually put one in my 55 degree temperate tank and he is doing well. They won't get into the crevices or under your sand like some other snail types.

 

[DSEKULA]

The Mandarin and scooter both eat pods ime a 55 might be pushing it to support both one mighy be too much depending on how you set up. I have a 150 display and my mandrin is territorial and killed the scooter i tried to house with him. They might individually not be like this but ime you may want to pick one or the other. Ime scooters or bullseye mandys are more likely to take to some supplimental frozen feeding.

Turbo snails are good but large id do less of them and more smaller snails tp mix it up.

 

[Tired]

You'll want to frequently feed both dragonets (the scooter is a dragonet too!) with good-quality foods, and probably start with just one in case the tank can't keep both fed. It might be possible to keep both happy with lots of extra feeding, but it'd be tricky, and territorial problems are definitely a potential concern. You should probably pick just one.

For your cleanup crew, I suggest a lot of little snails. Ceriths are good, as they'll stir your sand and get into various crevices. I love dwarf ceriths. Get one tropical turbo snail, one hermit (and enough suitable shells), and a lot of little snails, preferably of a variety of species, absolutely including things that will get into your sandbed and stir it around. Nerites are good, to mention another species. ReefCleaners is a great source that will send you five million dwarf ceriths if you order some.

 

[Gry]

Stock list looks okay except for the CUC. It lacks diversity and that is a lot of large CUC members. Mexican turbo's are also actually sub-tropical so I don't find them super long lived. I actually put one in my 55 degree temperate tank and he is doing well. They won't get into the crevices or under your sand like some other snail types.

I wasnt aware of the low temperature requirement for them, so would Tectus and Astrea be better?
Does 3-5 snails, 1 hermit, 1 sea hare, 1 sandsifting sea star sound better?

 

[Gry]

The Mandarin and scooter both eat pods ime a 55 might be pushing it to support both one mighy be too much depending on how you set up. I have a 150 display and my mandrin is territorial and killed the scooter i tried to house with him. They might individually not be like this but ime you may want to pick one or the other. Ime scooters or bullseye mandys are more likely to take to some supplimental frozen feeding.

Turbo snails are good but large id do less of them and more smaller snails tp mix it up.

Sounds like I'll drop the red scooter then, I wouldnt want either fish to end up getting killed. Which smaller snails would be good to add instead?

 

[Gry]

You'll want to frequently feed both dragonets (the scooter is a dragonet too!) with good-quality foods, and probably start with just one in case the tank can't keep both fed. It might be possible to keep both happy with lots of extra feeding, but it'd be tricky, and territorial problems are definitely a potential concern. You should probably pick just one.

For your cleanup crew, I suggest a lot of little snails. Ceriths are good, as they'll stir your sand and get into various crevices. I love dwarf ceriths. Get one tropical turbo snail, one hermit (and enough suitable shells), and a lot of little snails, preferably of a variety of species, absolutely including things that will get into your sandbed and stir it around. Nerites are good, to mention another species. ReefCleaners is a great source that will send you five million dwarf ceriths if you order some.

Thank you for the info, I'll look into Ceriths and nerites for saltwater. I have 2 nerites in my freshwater tanks, somehow didnt even think of them for a reef tank despite knowing they breed in saltwater

 

[Tamberav]

I wasnt aware of the low temperature requirement for them, so would Tectus and Astrea be better?
Does 3-5 snails, 1 hermit, 1 sea hare, 1 sandsifting sea star sound better?

It's not a requirement per say but they have shorter life spans.

No sea hare, if you have enough algae to keep one alive long term, you have a problem. People use them temperarily then return or pass them off.

I wouldn't do a sand sifting star either. A bit hard to maintain/keep alive long term.

I would do things like trochus, ceriths, nerites, and handful of small hermits. Once you have an established tank you could do one fighting conch. You can't keep it with halloween hermits though, those types of hermits will kill a conch for its shell.

 

[Tired]

You can actually acclimate bought-as-freshwater nerites to saltwater, for most species. Easier to buy ones caught in saltwater, though.

This is my checkered nerite, covered in dwarf ceriths and periwinkles. Those are baby dwarf ceriths, they top out just under an inch. Great for getting into crevices.

 

[Gry]

It's not a requirement per say but they have shorter life spans.

No sea hare, if you have enough algae to keep one alive long term, you have a problem. People use them temperarily then return or pass them off.

I wouldn't do a sand sifting star either. A bit hard to maintain/keep alive long term.

I would do things like trochus, ceriths, nerites, and handful of small hermits. Once you have an established tank you could do one fighting conch. You can't keep it with halloween hermits though, those types of hermits will kill a conch for its shell.

Shortening their life span intentionally by keeping them in a temperature outside of their range doesnt sit well with me, so I'd rather find a better fit

I'll scrap the sea hare and sand sifting star too, starving the poor things to death would be terrible. Ugly phases are probaby going to happen but hopefully not a persistant long term one that isnt fixable by adjusting parameters.

 

[Gry]

You can actually acclimate bought-as-freshwater nerites to saltwater, for most species. Easier to buy ones caught in saltwater, though.

This is my checkered nerite, covered in dwarf ceriths and periwinkles. Those are baby dwarf ceriths, they top out just under an inch. Great for getting into crevices.

The nerite looks giant in this picture. I understand why they are called dwarf snails now, even if those are just babies
I'll buy new snails, I wouldnt want to stress them out by converting them and potentially harming them in the process.

 

[Tired]

She is also kinda giant. About the size of half a walnut. You'd need a lot of dwarf ceriths for a big tank, but I think a lot of dwarf ceriths (and maybe a few other, larger things) would be a decent way to go. They're great multipurpose snails.

If you convert them over a few days of acclimation, it shouldn't be stressful. Check that you have a species that does well in full saltwater, but I believe most do. They have to move into saltier water to breed, after all.

 

[Gry]

Thanks for the feed back everyone, I really appreciate it I made a few modifications to my list:

Stock list, CUC:

• 1x Trochus snail
• 10x Dwarf ceriths
• 2x Nerite snails
• 1x Halloween hermit crabs (and extra snail shells for him so he doesnt Hannibal Lector the snails)
• 1x cleaner shrimp (pair?)

Would an emerald crab be good?

Fish stock list:

• 1x Clownfish pair, standard Percula or Ocellaris (Researching them told me these were the smallest and most mellow types)
• 3x Golden Assessor Basslets
• 1x Flasher Wrasse
• 1x Banggai Cardinal fish (or a mated pair)
• 1x Firefish
• 1x Yellow watchman goby

After a set and fully matured tank:

• 1x Spotted coral croucher
• 1x Red scooter dragonet (dropped due to possible conflict with mandarin)
• 1x Geometric pygmy hawkfish
• 1x Mandarin

 

[Gry]

She is also kinda giant. About the size of half a walnut. You'd need a lot of dwarf ceriths for a big tank, but I think a lot of dwarf ceriths (and maybe a few other, larger things) would be a decent way to go. They're great multipurpose snails.

If you convert them over a few days of acclimation, it shouldn't be stressful. Check that you have a species that does well in full saltwater, but I believe most do. They have to move into saltier water to breed, after all.

She looks amazing I only have 2 zebra nerites for the freshwater tanks, so would need to buy a couple for the reef tank

 

[Tamberav]

You probably need more snails then that but obviously something you can figure out as the tank progresses. I think I have 10-15 snails in my 80 plus breeding stomellas and strombus.

Female emeralds seem okay for most part but again you might not need one.

Cleaners are more ornamental than CUC. They love to steal food from corals so be prepared for that and give them something to eat first

 

[KevinC]

I would add my favorite royal grammar in that tank

52 gallon isn't a small tank at all

 

[Gry]

I would add my favorite royal grammar in that tank

52 gallon isn't a small tank at all

I do really like these also, it wouldn't be too many fish? I was under the impression 52 was still practially considered nano in the saltwater community I was aiming for something I could overcome while still having enough water volume to have a fairly stable system with a few different fish.

 

[KevinC]

I do really like these also, it wouldn't be too many fish? I was under the impression 52 was still practially considered nano in the saltwater community I was aiming for something I could overcome while still having enough water volume to have a fairly stable system with a few different fish.

Just keep up with the skimming, filtration etc. you should be fine as long as you don't obviously overstock it or get fish that would get too big such as tangs in (but hey I have done that before)

Saltwater is more about keeping water chemistry stable and there are many product avaliable to help you achieve that stability

 

[Alchameth]

Astrea snails are eating machines.
Nassarius snails are always fun to watch come out of the sand.

My tanks always have a few of these.

 

[Gry]

Astrea snails are eating machines.
Nassarius snails are always fun to watch come out of the sand.

My tanks always have a few of these.

Would you recommend one of each on top of the other snails, or to substitute these for some on the list?