Suggestions on treatment

jeff williams · Jul 29, 2017

I've had 3 fire fish in my qt for 3-1/2 weeks first week got them settled in and eating good then started cupramine as a prophylactic treatment fish show no signs of parasites or flukes. On day 9 noticed one fish heavy breathing, suspected flukes so I gave it a fresh water dip. No flukes in dip container and fish still breathing heavy after return to tank. Day 14 in cu and noticed 2 fish scratching periodically. Normal prophylactic treatment in cu I usually run 15 days then treat with prazipro however I'm wondering if the cu might be masking possible ick or velvet, I did on day 13 notice two of them swimming into HOB RETURN but only the one time so my thought is to continue cu for another 15 days however if this is flukes my question is should I run prazipro in conjunction with cu or continue with cu and observe. Would like some input on what you guys would do? Thanks

Smo · Jul 30, 2017

Can you tell us some more about your QT, how many gallons, I see you have a HOB filter...pumping in air too, testing for ammonia or using a badge? Are you sure the Cu is at a therapeutic level? What test kit are you using? Performing water changes? If so is the fresh water dosed with Cu prior to adding to the QT? Typically Cu is maintained at a therapeutic level for 30 days.

jeff williams · Jul 30, 2017

Smo said:
Can you tell us some more about your QT, how many gallons, I see you have a HOB filter...pumping in air too, testing for ammonia or using a badge? Are you sure the Cu is at a therapeutic level? What test kit are you using? Performing water changes? If so is the fresh water dosed with Cu prior to adding to the QT? Typically Cu is maintained at a therapeutic level for 30 days.

Qt is a 10 gallon tank bare bottom pvc tubes HOB with a sponge filter, also supplying air with a stone. Ammonia badge.
Ammonia Is 0 also checked with a api test kit nitrite 0 nitrate less than 5. Seachem cu test kit cu @.5 has been there for 14 days tested every day.
SG was matched to water fish were bagged in @1.010 and slow raised with daily WC so top off water has not been added until day 14 however when top off water went in immediately I do a 1 gal WC all water is dosed with cu before adding except top off. Top off water is less than a cup

aykwm · Jul 30, 2017

Sometimes fish are sensitive to copper, which might cause the heavy breathing but fire fish are considered hardy and should be all effected by this. Scratching usually means parasites. Fire fish usually have thick slime coat so ich and velvet or other parasites might not appear. I think its better to complete the copper course and then monitor them in an observation tank for few weeks just in case as usually parasites should appear 2-3 weeks after exposure to copper (if any is left and is being masked by copper)
Best of luck

ngoodermuth · Jul 30, 2017

I agree with @aykwm, it could be velvet or ich in the gills. I would continue copper treatment for 30 days, and then observe for 2-3 weeks to be sure symptoms don't return. As a reminder, make sure you are testing the copper level frequently so it's not fluctuating.

4FordFamily · Jul 30, 2017

Yes, continue treatment. Sometimes you'll find a copper sensitive fish that you cannot save but in the end you'll be a happier camper with a disease-free system If done right!

jeff williams · Jul 30, 2017

4FordFamily said:
Yes, continue treatment. Sometimes you'll find a copper sensitive fish that you cannot save but in the end you'll be a happier camper with a disease-free system If done right!

That's for sure

jeff williams · Jul 31, 2017

So I'm starting to think the fire fish are some what sensetive to cupramine they display similar signs that I've experienced with a coral beauty angel, which is also similar to a parasite infestation (flashing scratching increased respiration ) minus any spots of course.
Has anyone experienced this with fire fish and what signs have you noticed with a fish that is cu sensetive?
I've never treated a fish with cupramine that I can say for sure was displaying symptoms of cu sensetivity because all have had ick. However the coral beauty after copper treatment continued to flash and scratch for a short time

jeff williams · Aug 9, 2017

Update after observing the fire fish I was positive the cupramine was causing the scratching flashing lethargy and heavy breathing in these fish, 1 showed all the symptoms ,1 just scratching flashing and 1 no signs at all. All three continued to eat very well. So I reduced cu levels from .5 to .4 ppm giving the fish 24 hrs to adjust they continued with symptoms so I dropped to .35 ppm and noticed an improment at this point I decide to remove the cu completely being convinced the symptoms were cu related. The fire fish are still in qt I've been observing for 4 days and all symptoms are gone. I will continue for at least another week and a half and treat with prazipro. The reason I posted this update is to suggest fire fish may be better treated with a lower dose of cupramine or with chelated cu.
the 3 fish were felling so good they decided to establish dominance and a fight broke out last night. Ones got a chewed up tail ones staying hid and apparently the bully is possibly pairing up with the one with the tail chewed up, guess we'll see if pecking order has been established or the bully needs a new home. Anyways thanks everyone that took time to read and reply your much appreciated.