Sump & refugium design musings

[CrabMech]

I'm kicking around some ideas for the sump for my new tank build. My main concern is making the refugium as efficient as possible for growing pods. The standard 3-chamber design would probably work fine, but I was curious about some different variations on it.

I'm sure I'm overthinking things here, but I'm curious what people's thoughts are.

 

[TX_REEF]

it depends if you care about the "waterfall" sound or not. If you don't, go with #1 and save yourself build time and hassle. If you want it quieter, you probably want bubble traps. Feel free to give my tank thread a look, my sump was quite cheap and easy to build on my frag system and runs silent.

 

[CrabMech]

it depends if you care about the "waterfall" sound or not. If you don't, go with #1 and save yourself build time and hassle. If you want it quieter, you probably want bubble traps. Feel free to give my tank thread a look, my sump was quite cheap and easy to build on my frag system and runs silent.

The sound doesn't concern me, nor does the fabrication complexity. I'm not really concerned about bubbles either. I'm thinking about filtration efficiency & maximizing pod production. My thoughts were that design #1 would likely have some ares of poor flow even if I stuck a wavemaker in there, whereas if I force the water to pass through the rock in its own section, or if I get it up off the bottom of the sump with a grate then there would be better flow around and through it. But, like I said, I may simply be overthinking things!

 

[TX_REEF]

I would then still recommend you give my thread a look if you're so inclined - I also wanted to maximize gentle and even flow across the fuge, so I have a very low solid divider supplemented by eggcrate between the inflow and fuge chambers. I'm by no means a top-of-the-line expert builder, but I am big on planning, simplicity and efficiency!

That being said, unless your display is barren, pods will reproduce there as well. Fuge is far more useful for nutrient export, in my experience (and containing detrimental outcasts from the display)

 

[lbacha]

Your refugium doesn't need to be fancy, all those designs will work the same. Live rock isn't necessary for the cheato so keeping it together or separate doesn't really matter. I would provide smaller rock rubble in the main display for pods to populate. This will ensure there are always pods in the display. I use 2 little fishies reborn as a substrate in parts of my tank and there are pods all through it.

 

[CrabMech]

I would then still recommend you give my thread a look if you're so inclined - I also wanted to maximize gentle and even flow across the fuge, so I have a very low solid divider supplemented by eggcrate between the inflow and fuge chambers. I'm by no means a top-of-the-line expert builder, but I am big on planning, simplicity and efficiency!

That being said, unless your display is barren, pods will reproduce there as well. Fuge is far more useful for nutrient export, in my experience (and containing detrimental outcasts from the display)

I will definitely go check out your tank build.
My display tank would not be barren, but as I want to keep multiple pipefish and mandarins in the tank I will need a lot of pods.
I'm well aware of the fuge's other functions, I understand that part just fine. I'm sure any of the configurations I've been thinking of will handle nutrient export, I'm just thinking (out loud!) how to tweak it to maximize my pod production.

 

[CrabMech]

Your refugium doesn't need to be fancy, all those designs will work the same. Live rock isn't necessary for the cheato so keeping it together or separate doesn't really matter. I would provide smaller rock rubble in the main display for pods to populate. This will ensure there are always pods in the display. I use 2 little fishies reborn as a substrate in parts of my tank and there are pods all through it.

Thank you for the feedback.
I will definitely have live rock rubble in the display as well, but with many pod-eating fish planned I want to make sure there is a really strong population in the 'fuge to constantly replenish the supply.

 

[coreytrv]

Here's a design I've been working on for a sump. Notable changes from original, due to feedback on forums:

1. Return Section in middle, so fuge can have nice slow flow.
2. Bubble trap is Under-Over-Under
3. Rollermat will have drainage directed through it, looking at MRC Infinity

What do you guys think?

 

[coreytrv]

Bump, where are the sump masters on the forum, I'm a noob.

 

[TX_REEF]

I'm not a master by any means but I know my way around a sump and have made a few custom ones. I find your drawing hard to follow, is it top down? Can you provide a simplified one?
under over under bubble traps are great, but the chamber after will be stagnant on the surface and may develop bio-film. I counteract this in my system by having the ATO line feed into there for surface agitation.

 

[WvAquatics]

I am also not master and only ran 2 sumps not a lot of experience. This being said I have found with sump #2 that a lot of sump designs are more complex. I have 0 bubble traps. Literally just 2 height adjusting baffles on both sides of return. Skimmer doesnt make microbubbles in return unless the water level in return in too low. I honestly would rather of just had one baffle for return line and leave fuge socks skimmer all in one chamber that drains into return. That's just my thoughts

 

[WvAquatics]

P.s. where i moved mature tank into a new one. I have no predators for pods. I have amphipods so big they catch flake out of the column and drag it into the rockwork. Copepods that literally leave a white film on the glass. I thought it was algea went to scrap amd all spots moved. The amout of pods my skimmer would eat I feel is very minimal. But then again my thoughts might change as I add fish who will eat the millions of pods my clowns dont

 

[coreytrv]

I'm not a master by any means but I know my way around a sump and have made a few custom ones. I find your drawing hard to follow, is it top down? Can you provide a simplified one?

Sure can, see below. This is a front view of the sump, looking at a cross section.
The blue arrow show the path the water will take.
Added approx water levels as well.

over under over bubble traps are great, but the chamber after will be stagnant on the surface and may develop bio-film. I counteract this in my system by having the ATO line feed into there for surface agitation.

This design is under-over-under. I had over-under-over in another one, but the problem was the fall water took, resulted in air bubbles getting sucked into the return pump.

This design will have the slower refugium flow to agitate the surface.

 

[TX_REEF]

got it, and yes I meant under over under, as long as you have some water breaking the surface you're good.

In my opinion, you're over-complicating it by not having linear flow - I'd just do rollermat, fuge then return. Also recommend some form of mechanical filtration, even some coarse aquamesh, between fuge and return to prevent anything from clogging your pump from the fuge.

 

[coreytrv]

got it, and yes I meant under over under, as long as you have some water breaking the surface you're good.

In my opinion, you're over-complicating it by not having linear flow - I'd just do rollermat, fuge then return.

I have a linear fuge now, problem is, any flow through the sump is also through the fuge....

By putting the pump return section in the middle, it gives control over the fuge, independent from the turnover through the rest of the sump.

Interested in hearing from those who have middle pump return sections here, it's new to me!

Also recommend some form of mechanical filtration, even some coarse aquamesh, between fuge and return to prevent anything from clogging your pump from the fuge.

Love that suggestion, what do you think an extra baffle to slide a sponge down into?

 

[TX_REEF]

I have a linear fuge now, problem is, any flow through the sump is also through the fuge....

By putting the pump return section in the middle, it gives control over the fuge, independent from the turnover through the rest of the sump.

Interested in hearing from those who have middle pump return sections here, it's new to me!


Love that suggestion, what do you think an extra baffle to slide a sponge down into?

I just have mine in the first “under” of the bubble trap, personally