Tang Aggression - Understanding and Combating

jaxteller007

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My puffers are enormous and voracious -- I guess we will see what they do LOL

I may not have had it closed all the way either. Also I had two pieces already tore so I had them kind of on top of each other instead of just one piece. Let me know how it works for you.
 

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It happened to me at first because I tried adding too many sheets. I suspect that it opened up because it was not snapped tightly shut. It can only hold one sheet and needs to be cut to fit just the case so it can snap shut.
 
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I will add it with 4 percula clownfish and that may do the trick for acceptance.
Hopefully, though they’re not very similar... hope for the best!

lights off and add them just before lights go out for best results.
 

jaxteller007

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Well our two yellow's have managed to not beat each other to death. We're trying to get a 3rd but it's hard right now. We did add a coral beauty and a Lt Tang last week and everyone seems to be doing fine. They chase each other now and then but I haven't seen any marks on any of them from actual damage. Fingers crossed!
 

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I have read quite a few times that three tangs is a good number to keep peace as opposed to just adding two that can focus on each other.

Does this include the Hippo tang? The reason I ask is because it’s more of an open water feeder than a grazer.

I want to add three tangs to my 170gal and considering a yellow tang, mimic tang (chronix) and a hippo tang. Would this be a suitable mix?
 

jaxteller007

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I have read quite a few times that three tangs is a good number to keep peace as opposed to just adding two that can focus on each other.

Does this include the Hippo tang? The reason I ask is because it’s more of an open water feeder than a grazer.

I want to add three tangs to my 170gal and considering a yellow tang, mimic tang (chronix) and a hippo tang. Would this be a suitable mix?

We have two yellows and a lt now. We wanted 3 yellows but have had a hard time finding a 3rd one for a good price right now. The two yellows will chase each other every now and then now but we haven't seen them get really aggressive towards each other. It was worse before we added the Lt, coral beauty, and a couple other fish. It definitely seems like they are less aggressive to each other now that there are more fish in the tank that are active swimmers.
 
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4FordFamily

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I have read quite a few times that three tangs is a good number to keep peace as opposed to just adding two that can focus on each other.

Does this include the Hippo tang? The reason I ask is because it’s more of an open water feeder than a grazer.

I want to add three tangs to my 170gal and considering a yellow tang, mimic tang (chronix) and a hippo tang. Would this be a suitable mix?

It is better than 2, and 4 is better than 3 though you need the "real estate" for it. I think the plan is good though Hippo tangs get very large and outgrow 6 foot tanks eventually. :)
 

Jase4224

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We have two yellows and a lt now. We wanted 3 yellows but have had a hard time finding a 3rd one for a good price right now. The two yellows will chase each other every now and then now but we haven't seen them get really aggressive towards each other. It was worse before we added the Lt, coral beauty, and a couple other fish. It definitely seems like they are less aggressive to each other now that there are more fish in the tank that are active swimmers.
Thanks, I’ll have some other open water swimmers so should be ok. Interesting that you have two yellows that tolerate each other.
 

Jase4224

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It is better than 2, and 4 is better than 3 though you need the "real estate" for it. I think the plan is good though Hippo tangs get very large and outgrow 6 foot tanks eventually. :)

Yeah I’ve thought about a bristle tooth as well but don’t think my tank is big enough given the other fish I will have. If my hippo outgrows the tank than it will need a new home :)
 

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What size tank would you recommend for an Achilles and powder brown to coexist long term? (Other large fish would be an emperor angel and hippo tang).

Would a FOWLR 96x30x25 310 work?

Thank you!
 
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What size tank would you recommend for an Achilles and powder brown to coexist long term? (Other large fish would be an emperor angel and hippo tang). Thank you!
A 180 at a minimum, but larger is better and with more tangs present...
 

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Hello 4fordfamilly,
Thank you so much for this write up. I'm hoping to get your guidance with stocking Tangs in a new build I have coming. Tank will be 96x30x25 with external overflow. So all tank. I just had to break down my current 225g mixed reef tank because I made a Big mistake in my QT process trying to add a Powder Blue Tang. Sure enough she brought in Ich.
Oh well.. I needed to move that tank anyway & I'm also turning it into fowlr tank. All my fish are out and in QT tanks doing well. Thank God.
I have a Blonde Naso 6", Blue Hippo 6" & the new PBT 7". I want to add another tang so I can put them in at the same time. I was thinking of a Gem,Chevron,Purple or Blue Caribbean? I would really value your advise. Those will be the biggest fish in the tank. The rest will much smaller fish. Reef safe Wrasses,Gobies,Blennies, 2 clowns, 1 Firehawk.
Note: I know the Blonde Naso and the Blue Hippo with grow like monsters & one day might have to re-home to a bigger tank. I hope not... but I've seen some very big ones.
Thanks.
 
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Hello 4fordfamilly,
Thank you so much for this write up. I'm hoping to get your guidance with stocking Tangs in a new build I have coming. Tank will be 96x30x25 with external overflow. So all tank. I just had to break down my current 225g mixed reef tank because I made a Big mistake in my QT process trying to add a Powder Blue Tang. Sure enough she brought in Ich.
Oh well.. I needed to move that tank anyway & I'm also turning it into fowlr tank. All my fish are out and in QT tanks doing well. Thank God.
I have a Blonde Naso 6", Blue Hippo 6" & the new PBT 7". I want to add another tang so I can put them in at the same time. I was thinking of a Gem,Chevron,Purple or Blue Caribbean? I would really value your advise. Those will be the biggest fish in the tank. The rest will much smaller fish. Reef safe Wrasses,Gobies,Blennies, 2 clowns, 1 Firehawk.
Note: I know the Blonde Naso and the Blue Hippo with grow like monsters & one day might have to re-home to a bigger tank. I hope not... but I've seen some very big ones.
Thanks.

Any of those would probably work but especially the first three. You could diffuse aggression by adding two, but I would do the chevron and either the purple or gem as they’re from different genus. Purple and Gem are both Zebrasoma.

Good luck. Sorry for the trouble, it’s crazy how fast things can go poorly without QT. Even QT isn’t easy at times. God bless!
 

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Any of those would probably work but especially the first three. You could diffuse aggression by adding two, but I would do the chevron and either the purple or gem as they’re from different genus. Purple and Gem are both Zebrasoma.

Good luck. Sorry for the trouble, it’s crazy how fast things can go poorly without QT. Even QT isn’t easy at times. God bless!
Thank you for quick reply. I was hoping you say I can add 2 more Tangs :) Ok I will definitely go with the Chevron. Have to decide if Gem or Purple. Maybe let my wife make that call :)
Do you recommend I add them all at the same time 5 Tangs? It will be a completely new tank to them.
Specially now that my 3 tangs are in a 40g breeder. Powder blue is a its own 40g breeder with a partition by her self. She is a new fish and a bully. Other fish in the other part of the breeder are small fish.
Yes, when you QT using a 2 tank method and only copper for 14 days you have no room for error! & I know exactly what I did. I added 5 chromis in order to disperse the aggression when adding the PBT in DT but i didn’t re-start the clock when i put them in QT. I got them 3 days after the PBT. I also was traveling so I didn‘t want to leave the fish in copper so I moved them to clean tank in what i thought was 10 days but it was only 7. The entire time i was worried about the potential aggression problem and now look where I’m at. My house looks like an LFS store with 2x40’g breeders 1x10g & 1x5g all running 2.0 copper power. I’m only 2.5 years into this hobby but thank God for you people on this site. I really mean that!!! Thank you!
 
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Thank you for quick reply. I was hoping you say I can add 2 more Tangs :) Ok I will definitely go with the Chevron. Have to decide if Gem or Purple. Maybe let my wife make that call :)
Do you recommend I add them all at the same time 5 Tangs? It will be a completely new tank to them.
Specially now that my 3 tangs are in a 40g breeder. Powder blue is a its own 40g breeder with a partition by her self. She is a new fish and a bully. Other fish in the other part of the breeder are small fish.
Yes, when you QT using a 2 tank method and only copper for 14 days you have no room for error! & I know exactly what I did. I added 5 chromis in order to disperse the aggression when adding the PBT in DT but i didn’t re-start the clock when i put them in QT. I got them 3 days after the PBT. I also was traveling so I didn‘t want to leave the fish in copper so I moved them to clean tank in what i thought was 10 days but it was only 7. The entire time i was worried about the potential aggression problem and now look where I’m at. My house looks like an LFS store with 2x40’g breeders 1x10g & 1x5g all running 2.0 copper power. I’m only 2.5 years into this hobby but thank God for you people on this site. I really mean that!!! Thank you!
Yes, add together.

I have had some strains of velvet that 14 day method doesn’t seem to work after several tries. So I’ve moved to 30 days again. This is probably a fluke and not normal but just to let you know.
 

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Working on my fish list for my 225, 72x30x24. Can I keep these tangs together and if so should I add them all together or some kind of order? Tangs on my wishlist are Yellow, orange shoulder, Naso, and maybe kole. Only fish I have currently is a pair of clowns and a royal gramma. Would like a wrasse or anthias too but haven’t researched that much yet. And blue throat trigger is one I’d like to look into as well
 

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Yes, add together.

I have had some strains of velvet that 14 day method doesn’t seem to work after several tries. So I’ve moved to 30 days again. This is probably a fluke and not normal but just to let you know.
Oh wow. What do I do? I was planning on 14 days full copper. I only had Ich but i understand these parasites stay dormant for years. I don’t want to take this thread on a different direction. Should I post somewhere else? I have a lot of fish in QT tanks and don‘t really want to go 30 days. I battling ammonia in 1 40b with the the Naso,Blue Hippo, 7” Annularis, small Bellus, and Golden head Goby. I have a Clean 55g cycling right now waiting for those fish. I’m at day 8 of copper.
 

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So what's the deal with tangs? How do I keep them together? Why are they so aggressive and difficult to keep sometimes? It's a common discussion point. Some may dissent with what I have to share but I've never had less than three tanks running at a time, up to 7, and have been in the hobby ~15 years with 2 of them spent working for an LFS running their saltwater fish dept largely, for what it's worth.

Root of Tang Aggression:
Understand that from a tangs point of view, more herbivores means less algae. They've evolved to defend their patch of algae and territory very hard because they may starve if someone else comes in and takes it over. It's literally life or death for them. Angels and other herbivores are occasionally ousted but tangs in particular are often in direct competition for food and will be heckled heavily. The only herbivore that is tolerated (sometimes) is foxface. This is because they're venomous. Even still I've seen tangs stress them to death literally.

Tangs are often most aggressive to members of the same species in home aquaria and species in the same genus. When not schooling, they often protect a patch of rock from other fish, often other tangs, particularly tangs of the same species. (It is much more likely that they will compete for food since their diet is identical)

Tangs are also more likely to be aggressive in the home aquaria because they are stressed and in smaller quarters. Even the best hobbyists have questionable environments compared to their natural homes in the ocean. Fish that swim several miles each day such as many acanthurus tangs (particularly PBT, Achilles, etc) feel cramped and as with any organism that is stressed, they can respond to this by "acting out" (aggression).

The author keeps quite a few tangs in his own aquarium as you can see in the 2 photos below.
1-jpg.411877


4-jpg.411880


What Does Tang Aggression Look Like?

Tangs are purpose built for eating algae and defending said food source. They're equipped with at least one scalpel near the base of the tail for "swiping" other fish. This is where the name "surgeonfish" came from. These can do a lot of damage and leave serious lascerations. When adding or mixing tangs, be on the lookout for aggression and know when to implement "Plan B". Constant chasing, nipping, and swiping is not a good sign and unlikely to stop. As you'll read later, some species hold grudges forever and others let bygones be bygones on occasion. It's your job as the hobbyist to know when to intervene. Occasional chasing, flaring fins, circling each other, or swiping motions that are clearly a dominance display rather than a true attempt at puncturing the other fish should be noted but are common in a tank mixed with territorial herbivores.

With all of this in mind, your existing tangs are not going to be welcoming.

The degree of aggression the new tangs receive can be curbed by:
1) Keep them very very well fed. Keep enough nori in there that by the end of the day it is gone but they have access to it for most of the day. This will make them feel like they need to compete less, but it's no guarantee.

2) Re-arrange rockwork. This can be successful because the tang feels like they are no longer in their territory temporarily and may hesitate to be as aggressive as otherwise.

3) Add multiple tangs at a time. Tangs can take some serious abuse, but 3 on 1 new addition is terrible odds. It may work but the new fish will be very stressed and possibly stabbed several times. Even if only one new tang heckled the new tang it would not be a fair fight - a fat established and possibly more aggressive species targeting a fish that has been through heck getting to you and as such has a weak immune system, is thinner presumably because it hasn't eaten as it should, and is very stressed. More tangs will increase distraction and will break up aggression considerably, providing you don't have a tang that singles one of the newcomers out. Powder blue are notorious for picking a grudge and taking it to their grave. Other aggressive species often simmer down in a weeks time. If the fish makes it that long things should get better, presuming they don't succumb to ich or other parasites.

4) Use acclimation boxes. This shields the newcomer from attacks from other fish and gets them used to seeing the new fish. It also allows the new fish to adjust a bit so that it is better able to defend itself and know its surroundings better.

5) Mirrors placed in the corner of the tank. For a very aggressive tang, sometimes a mirror placed in the corners will keep the fish flashing and attacking itself rather than harassing a new addition. I've personally never done this but have heard of some limited success.

6) Removal of the problem fish and a re-introduction later. This can work because the tank pecking order is disrupted. The fish will be confused by the change and work out their own new pecking order and be less concerned with harassing the newcomers. Upon reintroduction some few days or months later, assumedly the new fish will not be the tank boss and will not be as territorial as a result (since it is not his territory now - yet)

7) A combination of these ideas. To hedge your bets, mixing strategies may well be worth the effort.

8) If you are planning to add tangs of the same genus, definitely add more than one. I frequently break the rules with tangs. One tank has a PBT and Achilles tang together, another has a PBT, Achilles, and goldrim together. I even have a pair of achilles together (do NOT try this at home). They get along great. This wasn't easy and some fish had to be moved around and they were added simultaneously most of the time. I've always kept purple, yellow, and sailfins as a trio. Again, adding at the same time. They've always gotten along well. I've done this for 12 years with more than three test groups in various tanks on various occasions.

Adding a yellow to an established purple for instance is likely to end in the death of the yellow. Adding an Achilles to a PBT is often murder.

Notice the 2 Achilles tangs, PBT, and Goldrim together in these two photos.
3-jpg.411879


2-jpg.411878

9) Adding tangs of larger OR smaller size. There is different logic to this theory, both is probably valid. Add larger less aggressive tangs than your most aggressive tang to intimidate it. Again some may not be intimidated... particularly PBT.

Adding smaller tangs may make sense because the existing tang may see them as LESS of a threat for dominance in the pecking order (but still a threat to its food sources...)

Many people have different opinions but the only steadfast rule I follow is not to add tangs of the same exact size unless I am adding them in groups.

Conclusion:

Understand that none of this is fool proof. Powder blue tangs in particular are notorious for holding a permanent grudge. Months of time apart will not work if they have a "personal vendetta" to destroy a fish-- not always a tang, either.

Sohal tangs IME are not nearly as aggressive as people make them out to be. I hypothesize that a few people had terror sohal tangs and their stories keep getting repeated by other members and shared with others. As such, they get a worse rep than they deserve because of the same stories being told by several reefers. Honestly I don't even rank sohal tangs in the top 5 most aggressive tangs, although it is on my list because I've not owned all tangs

My list is this: (I'm only ranking tangs I've actually had experience with). This is just an opinion after having several of each species over the years in multiple tanks.

1) Powder Blue
2) Powder Brown
3) Sohal (increasingly nasty with size)
4) Clown (increasingly nasty with size)
5) Achilles (some are docile but the nasty are up there with PBT)
6) Purple
7) Yellow
8) Goldrim/ White Cheek
9) Scopas
10) Gem
11) Kole (increasingly nasty with size)
12) Sailfin
13) Atlantic blue
14) Desjardini Sailfin
15) Hippo & YB Hippo
16) Tomini Tang
17) Chevron
18) Orange Shoulder
19) Convict Tang
20) Blonde Naso
21) Naso

A lot of variance exists between species, this is just my experience and observations over the years with other peers and kin I interact with or see them and their tanks frequently.

I hope this is helpful.



what should i do, my powder blue is trying to kill my powder brown, they almost the same size, i see a cut on his body from that bully. what should i do, also is this ok? i am not sure if he has enough oxygen



Dimensions: 8"x6.5"x7.12"

Door Opening: 5.62"x4.62"

Mounting Thickness: up to .75"

Food Feeder: 4.62"

Can be mount with regular plastic or euro rim style

3235-large_default.jpg 1560359-eb2d29030177e0c82537fa5e2e48ca64.jpg 1560360-76c74a267c5e04804acc094aa4c8a756.jpg
 
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lakai

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what should i do, my powder blue is trying to kill my powder brown, they almost the same size, i see a cut on his body from that bully. what should i do, also is this ok? i am not sure if he has enough oxygen



Dimensions: 8"x6.5"x7.12"

Door Opening: 5.62"x4.62"

Mounting Thickness: up to .75"

Food Feeder: 4.62"

Can be mount with regular plastic or euro rim style

3235-large_default.jpg 1560359-eb2d29030177e0c82537fa5e2e48ca64.jpg 1560360-76c74a267c5e04804acc094aa4c8a756.jpg
get it out and put it in some NFG or some other antibiotics. These types of tangs don't survive too long with wounds like that.
 

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