Tang Aggression - Understanding and Combating

[beesnreefs]

I'm not a tang expert so don't know whether it would work, BUT if you do add either the orange shoulder or the hippo, my vote would be orange shoulder - something different from the typical Dory and I think they're beautiful.

Off topic, but how have the damsels been for you aggression- wise?

I agree! Ended up ordering a blonde naso and an orange shoulder. Should be coming in a month or so.

I ordered three azure damsels as well. They are the last fish I’ll be adding so I don’t have them yet. Hoping to get them early March.

 

[Sink_or_Swim]

I agree! Ended up ordering a blonde naso and an orange shoulder. Should be coming in a month or so.

I ordered three azure damsels as well. They are the last fish I’ll be adding so I don’t have them yet. Hoping to get them early March.

Nice! I hope to be able to upgrade to a larger tank in the future so I can keep some of the larger tangs.
I really want some blue in my reef, and have been considering either a trio of Azures or yellowtails... just hear so many conflicting things about how peaceful they actually are. I'm guessing the captive bred Azures or Springeri are probably the most peaceful. Can't wait to see pics when you get your new additions!

 

[KassScott]

@4FordFamily slowly working my way through this amazing thread so first off thank you for starting it I’m learning so much just by reading it.
I’m in the process of setting up a 120 G for foot and would definitely like to add some things if possible obviously I know for some species it’s not ideal and in reading through so far I am 100% fine with avoiding some of the nastier ones. I’ve gone through made a list of the ones that I felt like temperament wise were my best possible choices and then narrow them down more to the ones that have smaller Max size. What I’m left with is a Chevron, a Tomini and a Kole. (I guess I’ll have to save the lipstick naso and desjardin for a future upgrade tank? ) so thoughts here. I have to set selections for other fish yet besides the current pair of Mocha Ocellaris I have. Obviously considerations for all the usual suspects wrasse, gobies, blennies, lyretail anthias…. Maybe an angel and or trigger if I’m not pushing the limits at that point. I just want all decisions to be very well thought out and added in the best possible order. Thanks in advance!!

 

[Kalinina]

The addition of the new tang went well! She settled right in. A few bats from the scopas tang and yellow tang at first introduction, but that was it.

What I did before releasing new fish:
Placed a few rock pieces to make more caves
Let lights ramp up (didn’t change light schedule but lights were off when I started)

After releasing fish:
Fed nori, frozen and pellets at different times
Watched the tank lol

I ended up not using the acclimation box. The new tang is small and i didn’t think my fish would harass it like they would if it were larger.

**any markings in the photo are my tank. It’s acrylic and I sanded/polished it myself when I got it and that didn’t go too well.

 

[Tuffyyyyy]

Wish I would have refreshed myself on this thread today before my sailfin tang came in. Ordered it 4 months ago from TSM Aquatics and it finally came in today. I have a mature yellow and naso tang that have been in my tank for a month or two (got them from another reefer who had them for years). Added 2 sheets of nori when I put the sailfin in, trying to curb aggression, and everything seemed good. I sat and observed off and on for 2-3 hours. I saw them all swimming together and figured everything was good to go from here, so I went on a walk, but came back 90 minutes later and the sailfin is barely breathing and laying on the bottom of the tank. Initially thought he was dead, so I was scooping him out of the tank, and he wiggled a little, so I put him in an acclimation box in the sump to probably just suffer for a few more hours until he dies. I noticed when I was moving him that he has some pinkish sores on the side, so guessing one of the tangs beat him up while I was gone.

 

[QuickrdenU]

Looking for some input. I am putting together a 200 gallon reef tank and plan on introducing the tangs last and all at once. That sound about right? How many? I was thinking 3? 4?

If 3:
squaretail bristletooth
Orange shoulder
Naso

If 4:
a yellow or blue to add some color(which one is overall better?) I honestly don’t love the yellow tang look but if he’s a worker then…

seems like they’re all different enough but I have no experience with them lately. I’m really wanting them to be as hardy as possible and help clean my tank.

 

[i cant think]

Looking for some input. I am putting together a 200 gallon reef tank and plan on introducing the tangs last and all at once. That sound about right? How many? I was thinking 3? 4?

If 3:
squaretail bristletooth
Orange shoulder
Naso

If 4:
a yellow or blue to add some color(which one is overall better?) I honestly don’t love the yellow tang look but if he’s a worker then…

seems like they’re all different enough but I have no experience with them lately. I’m really wanting them to be as hardy as possible and help clean my tank.

You could fit maybe 4 at a push if you plan on having no other large fish like angels or butterflies. If you go for 3 you’re more likely to have a group that will work together.
The Naso and Orange Shoulder will get too large for a 6’ tank and need an 8’ tank at least.

 

[QuickrdenU]

Ok. Let me pose it another way. Which 3 tangs would people put into a 6 foot tank? No more than $300 per fish.

 

[i cant think]

Ok. Let me pose it another way. Which 3 tangs would people put into a 6 foot tank? No more than $300 per fish.

I’d put;
Twin Spot Bristletooth or White Tailed Bristletooth
Achilles or a Gold Rim or the hybrid between the two
Black hybrid for a pricier tang or Yellow Scopas for a cheaper Yellow Tang

 

[QuickrdenU]

I’d put;
Twin Spot Bristletooth or White Tailed Bristletooth
Achilles or a Gold Rim or the hybrid between the two
Black hybrid for a pricier tang or Yellow Scopas for a cheaper Yellow Tang

Thanks for the reply! I’ll look into all of them. Much appreciated.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Ok. Let me pose it another way. Which 3 tangs would people put into a 6 foot tank? No more than $300 per fish.

I had 21 tangs in a 6ft 136g for close to a year and now 22 tangs in a 400g. Not saying its proper practice but with good water quality management and diet its doable but would recommend not to exceed half this number

Three tangs: gem-tomini and chocolate

 

[hubble]

I have a 160 (5') and would like a group of yellow tangs (3) and maybe a convict, or a purple, would this be doable? They would all be added at same time and purchased as small as possible from Dr. Reefs Quarantined Fish.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I have a 160 (5') and would like a group of yellow tangs (3) and maybe a convict, or a purple, would this be doable? They would all be added at same time and purchased as small as possible from Dr. Reefs Quarantined Fish.

Should be- Just acclimate well and plan to provide Good diet (not flakes and pellets only) and maintain Good water quality.
Here are my tangs in 135g although not recommended for everyone (they are back in a much larger tank now)

 

[Brian Berry]

Tang Aggression - Understanding and Combating
​

So what's the deal with tangs? How do I keep them together? Why are they so aggressive and difficult to keep sometimes? It's a common discussion point. Some may dissent with what I have to share but I've never had less than three tanks running at a time, up to 7, and have been in the hobby ~15 years with 2 of them spent working for an LFS running their saltwater fish dept largely, for what it's worth.

Root of Tang Aggression:
​

Understand that from a tangs point of view, more herbivores means less algae. They've evolved to defend their patch of algae and territory very hard because they may starve if someone else comes in and takes it over. It's literally life or death for them. Angels and other herbivores are occasionally ousted but tangs in particular are often in direct competition for food and will be heckled heavily. The only herbivore that is tolerated (sometimes) is foxface. This is because they're venomous. Even still I've seen tangs stress them to death literally.

Tangs are often most aggressive to members of the same species in home aquaria and species in the same genus. When not schooling, they often protect a patch of rock from other fish, often other tangs, particularly tangs of the same species. (It is much more likely that they will compete for food since their diet is identical)

Tangs are also more likely to be aggressive in the home aquaria because they are stressed and in smaller quarters. Even the best hobbyists have questionable environments compared to their natural homes in the ocean. Fish that swim several miles each day such as many acanthurus tangs (particularly PBT, Achilles, etc) feel cramped and as with any organism that is stressed, they can respond to this by "acting out" (aggression).

The author keeps quite a few tangs in his own aquarium as you can see in the 2 photos below.

What Does Tang Aggression Look Like?​

Tangs are purpose built for eating algae and defending said food source. They're equipped with at least one scalpel near the base of the tail for "swiping" other fish. This is where the name "surgeonfish" came from. These can do a lot of damage and leave serious lascerations. When adding or mixing tangs, be on the lookout for aggression and know when to implement "Plan B". Constant chasing, nipping, and swiping is not a good sign and unlikely to stop. As you'll read later, some species hold grudges forever and others let bygones be bygones on occasion. It's your job as the hobbyist to know when to intervene. Occasional chasing, flaring fins, circling each other, or swiping motions that are clearly a dominance display rather than a true attempt at puncturing the other fish should be noted but are common in a tank mixed with territorial herbivores.

With all of this in mind, your existing tangs are not going to be welcoming.

The degree of aggression the new tangs receive can be curbed by:
​

1) Keep them very very well fed. Keep enough nori in there that by the end of the day it is gone but they have access to it for most of the day. This will make them feel like they need to compete less, but it's no guarantee.​

2) Re-arrange rockwork. This can be successful because the tang feels like they are no longer in their territory temporarily and may hesitate to be as aggressive as otherwise.

3) Add multiple tangs at a time. Tangs can take some serious abuse, but 3 on 1 new addition is terrible odds. It may work but the new fish will be very stressed and possibly stabbed several times. Even if only one new tang heckled the new tang it would not be a fair fight - a fat established and possibly more aggressive species targeting a fish that has been through heck getting to you and as such has a weak immune system, is thinner presumably because it hasn't eaten as it should, and is very stressed. More tangs will increase distraction and will break up aggression considerably, providing you don't have a tang that singles one of the newcomers out. Powder blue are notorious for picking a grudge and taking it to their grave. Other aggressive species often simmer down in a weeks time. If the fish makes it that long things should get better, presuming they don't succumb to ich or other parasites.

4) Use acclimation boxes. This shields the newcomer from attacks from other fish and gets them used to seeing the new fish. It also allows the new fish to adjust a bit so that it is better able to defend itself and know its surroundings better.

5) Mirrors placed in the corner of the tank. For a very aggressive tang, sometimes a mirror placed in the corners will keep the fish flashing and attacking itself rather than harassing a new addition. I've personally never done this but have heard of some limited success.

6) Removal of the problem fish and a re-introduction later. This can work because the tank pecking order is disrupted. The fish will be confused by the change and work out their own new pecking order and be less concerned with harassing the newcomers. Upon reintroduction some few days or months later, assumedly the new fish will not be the tank boss and will not be as territorial as a result (since it is not his territory now - yet)

7) A combination of these ideas. To hedge your bets, mixing strategies may well be worth the effort.

8) If you are planning to add tangs of the same genus, definitely add more than one. I frequently break the rules with tangs. One tank has a PBT and Achilles tang together, another has a PBT, Achilles, and goldrim together. I even have a pair of achilles together (do NOT try this at home). They get along great. This wasn't easy and some fish had to be moved around and they were added simultaneously most of the time. I've always kept purple, yellow, and sailfins as a trio. Again, adding at the same time. They've always gotten along well. I've done this for 12 years with more than three test groups in various tanks on various occasions.

Adding a yellow to an established purple for instance is likely to end in the death of the yellow. Adding an Achilles to a PBT is often murder.

Notice the 2 Achilles tangs, PBT, and Goldrim together in these two photos.

9) Adding tangs of larger OR smaller size. There is different logic to this theory, both is probably valid. Add larger less aggressive tangs than your most aggressive tang to intimidate it. Again some may not be intimidated... particularly PBT.

Adding smaller tangs may make sense because the existing tang may see them as LESS of a threat for dominance in the pecking order (but still a threat to its food sources...)

Many people have different opinions but the only steadfast rule I follow is not to add tangs of the same exact size unless I am adding them in groups.

Conclusion:​

Understand that none of this is fool proof. Powder blue tangs in particular are notorious for holding a permanent grudge. Months of time apart will not work if they have a "personal vendetta" to destroy a fish-- not always a tang, either.

Sohal tangs IME are not nearly as aggressive as people make them out to be. I hypothesize that a few people had terror sohal tangs and their stories keep getting repeated by other members and shared with others. As such, they get a worse rep than they deserve because of the same stories being told by several reefers. Honestly I don't even rank sohal tangs in the top 5 most aggressive tangs, although it is on my list because I've not owned all tangs

My list is this: (I'm only ranking tangs I've actually had experience with). This is just an opinion after having several of each species over the years in multiple tanks.

1) Powder Blue
2) Powder Brown
3) Sohal (increasingly nasty with size)
4) Clown (increasingly nasty with size)
5) Achilles (some are docile but the nasty are up there with PBT)
6) Purple
7) Yellow
8) Goldrim/ White Cheek
9) Scopas
10) Gem
11) Kole (increasingly nasty with size)
12) Sailfin
13) Atlantic blue
14) Desjardini Sailfin
15) Hippo & YB Hippo
16) Tomini Tang
17) Chevron
18) Orange Shoulder
19) Convict Tang
20) Blonde Naso
21) Naso

A lot of variance exists between species, this is just my experience and observations over the years with other peers and kin I interact with or see them and their tanks frequently.

I hope this is helpful.

Screenshot taken, thank you for the great input from your experience.

 

[Suus801]

I was hoping for some input please!

I am upgrading from my 300xl g2 to a waterbox 6 foot x 29.5 x 23.6 inches ta

current stock to be transferred is

2 clowns
Midas blenny
Fox face
scarlet hawkfish
1 blue chromie
Royal gramma
Yellow wrasse
Fairy wrasse
Tomini tang

I am wanting to add 3 x zebrasome tangs, a regal and a powered blue.

my plan was to get the 3 zebrasomes in once the tank is established and add them all at the same time as juveniles, sized as closely as possible. Is this the best way to go about this?

once these are established and well introduce the regal and the powder blue, though not sure if they should go in together or the regal first.

anyone with experience on trying this?

thanks!

 

[4FordFamily]

I was hoping for some input please!

I am upgrading from my 300xl g2 to a waterbox 6 foot x 29.5 x 23.6 inches ta

current stock to be transferred is

2 clowns
Midas blenny
Fox face
scarlet hawkfish
1 blue chromie
Royal gramma
Yellow wrasse
Fairy wrasse
Tomini tang

I am wanting to add 3 x zebrasome tangs, a regal and a powered blue.

my plan was to get the 3 zebrasomes in once the tank is established and add them all at the same time as juveniles, sized as closely as possible. Is this the best way to go about this?

once these are established and well introduce the regal and the powder blue, though not sure if they should go in together or the regal first.

anyone with experience on trying this?

thanks!

That could work, it’s a lot of tangs but I can hardly say anything as I do that. I wouldn’t buy them too small as they’re not as hardy. I’d say 2.5-3.5 inch zebrasoma is ideal. To be honest though if added together the size may not be that important. Definitely add the PBT last. Hippo can be small - 2-3 inches or so if hardy and be OK. The tomini may not appreciate another tang addition but on the other hand it may not care much especially if added to a new tank almost immediately. Smaller hippo can hide and wait it out pretty well unlike other tangs which gives them so leeway.

 

[Suus801]

That could work, it’s a lot of tangs but I can hardly say anything as I do that. I wouldn’t buy them too small as they’re not as hardy. I’d say 2.5-3.5 inch zebrasoma is ideal. To be honest though if added together the size may not be that important. Definitely add the PBT last. Hippo can be small - 2-3 inches or so if hardy and be OK. The tomini may not appreciate another tang addition but on the other hand it may not care much especially if added to a new tank almost immediately. Smaller hippo can hide and wait it out pretty well unlike other tangs which gives them so leeway.

Thank you, your input is much appreciated!

I will be running a oversized skimmer, reefmat and fuge, so the nutrients shouldn’t be a issues but will keep a eye on it before adding the powder blue.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I was hoping for some input please!

I am upgrading from my 300xl g2 to a waterbox 6 foot x 29.5 x 23.6 inches ta

current stock to be transferred is

2 clowns
Midas blenny
Fox face
scarlet hawkfish
1 blue chromie
Royal gramma
Yellow wrasse
Fairy wrasse
Tomini tang

I am wanting to add 3 x zebrasome tangs, a regal and a powered blue.

my plan was to get the 3 zebrasomes in once the tank is established and add them all at the same time as juveniles, sized as closely as possible. Is this the best way to go about this?

once these are established and well introduce the regal and the powder blue, though not sure if they should go in together or the regal first.

anyone with experience on trying this?

thanks!

While it can work, I would limit to 3 tang additions based on growth and potential aggression

 

[mdrobc13]

Thank you, your input is much appreciated!

I will be running a oversized skimmer, reefmat and fuge, so the nutrients shouldn’t be a issues but will keep a eye on it before adding the powder blue.

Similar to what was said...best to add mild temperament tangs first and in a group or batch and then move up the aggression scale. Agree PBT should be last added. I have done so prior and did my 210 gal in 2017 like this.

Hippo tang Small x2
Yellow tang Small x2 + Sailfin tang Small x1
Purple tang Med x1
Flame Fin/Tonami tang Med x1
Naso Tang XL x1 (XL was removed too big for tank to be happy with other tangs)
Vlamingi Tang Small x1
Clown Tang Med x1
Powder Brown Tang x1 (killed by Clown tang within 24hrs)
Powder Blue Tang x1 (stressed by closen tang; died due to ich outbreak likely due to stress)
Powder Blue Tang x1 (larger than clown tang/killed clown tang I think after about 2 wks)

As you can see it is a bit of luck but also pending on size of fish and aggression and your tank size as well as rockscape also. Those are harder to predict.

Current tank is Red Sea 265g and so far have done similar additions:
Hippo Tang Small x2
Flame Fin/Tonami Tang Small x1
Yellow Tang (biota) small x2
Purple Tang Med x1
Sailfin Tang Small/Med x1 (died of other causes/did not eat)
Lieutenant Tang Med x1 (still in QT)
Powder Blue Tang Small/Med x1 (still in QT)

These two will go in last Lieutenant tang + Powder Blue at the same time to minimize aggression. Have also added new rock scape to diffuse pending tension. Should go in taknin about a week. Wishing myself luck!

Have done similar with two dwarf angels (Elbi + Orange hybrid lemon peel dwarf angel...added both same time and only 24-36 hrs of chasing then agreement to get along and no issues over 2 weeks.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Way less than they used to be

Guessing more fish coming out of Mauritius? Or finding in Madagascar?

Also Gems are way down.

$289 at NY Aquatics