Tank birthday, 47+ years

[Dogtown]

@Paul B , I'll ask again... You use a sterilizer as part of an overall solution to improve your water quality. Do you acknowledge that now?

 

[atoll]

@Paul B , I'll ask again... You use a sterilizer as part of an overall solution to improve your water quality. Do you acknowledge that now?

May I ask exactly how water quality on 'its own help keep a tank parasite free? There are many instances of people with "perfect" water quality that have had and continue to have issues with parasites like whitespot and itch. I also know many people plagued with parasite issues that also use ozone. I am struggling to get to grips with just what you are suggesting here. Ozone is neither a cure nor will it prevent itch and whitespot although I do agree it is an aid to help with such but nothing more than that, perhaps massive doses of ozone would indeed wipe out parasites but why do we need to and those levels may well be dangerous. When I run ozone many years ago I still had issues with whitespot. I no longer run it and have no issues with white spot/itch nor any other parasite or disease. I have yet to read a convincing argument for why either my tank, pauls or that of my friend's tanks who don't run ozone yet still have healthy fish other than Paul and myself have put forward. If you can show instances of ozone curing fish of parasites then I would love to see them. Sorry if I misunderstand why you are pushing this question, I am just a little confused by what you are getting at.

 

[Brew12]

May I ask exactly how water quality on 'its own help keep a tank parasite free? There are many instances of people with "perfect" water quality that have had and continue to have issues with parasites like whitespot and itch. I also know many people plagued with parasite issues that also use ozone. I am struggling to get to grips with just what you are suggesting here. Ozone is neither a cure nor will it prevent itch and whitespot although I do agree it is an aid to help with such but nothing more than that, perhaps massive doses of ozone would indeed wipe out parasites but why do we need to and those levels may well be dangerous. When I run ozone many years ago I still had issues with whitespot. I no longer run it and have no issues with white spot/itch nor any other parasite or disease. I have yet to read a convincing argument for why either my tank, pauls or that of my friend's tanks who don't run ozone yet still have healthy fish other than Paul and myself have put forward. If you can show instances of ozone curing fish of parasites then I would love to see them. Sorry if I misunderstand why you are pushing this question, I am just a little confused by what you are getting at.

I am very confident that Paul could eradicate every parasite from his system if he would inject the ozone directly into his DT wide open. :oops:;Troll

 

[atoll]

I am very confident that Paul could eradicate every parasite from his system if he would inject the ozone directly into his DT wide open. :oops:;Troll

And even if that were to be true and I doubt that, why would he need or even wish to? :confused:

 

[Brew12]

And even if that were to be true and I doubt that, why would he need or even wish to? :confused:

I didn't say he would need to and he definitely wouldn't wish to. It would kill pretty much every living thing in his tank. ;)

 

[Paul B]

@Paul B , I'll ask again... You use a sterilizer as part of an overall solution to improve your water quality. Do you acknowledge that now?

That I do. :cool:

 

[Paul B]

I still can't understand why I have to prove anything! :cool:

The people who use Ozone to kill parasites should prove that, or the people who quarantine have to prove that their fish don't get sick and they are spawning. So far 3 of us have immune fish and we all keep them differently. I asked a lot of things about people proving things but I have yet to see someone's hand up about Ozone or quarantining. :rolleyes:
If I have the oldest tank on here and possibly some of the oldest fish and they have never been sick, my tank and experience speaks for itself and nothing to prove.
If Ozone is the key, do that, if quarantining is the key do that, if an oxidator is the key, do that. Do whatever you feel is the right way to do this. Then, it seems you have to prove it. :p

My nitrates are 160 and my phosphorous is 0.2. If that is the parameters you are going for, use Ozone as I do. :confused:

 

[atoll]

I didn't say he would need to and he definitely wouldn't wish to. It would kill pretty much every living thing in his tank. ;)

Well there are plenty of people who manage that without the use of ozone ;)

 

[Dogtown]

Hey Paul... Thank you for acknowledging the above.

 

[Dogtown]

My nitrates are 160 and my phosphorous is 0.2. If that is the parameters you are going for, use Ozone as I do. :confused:

Paul, it might benefit newbies to explain to them how and why it is that you are able to maintain nitrates at 160 on an ongoing basis without experiencing ammonia poisoning problems. I'm not doubting your nitrate levels for a second. If they understand why you are able to do this safely, then they will understand why that number would be dangerous in most cases for others.

 

[Dogtown]

May I ask exactly how water quality on its own help keep a tank parasite free?

Hi atoll, I proposed that good water quality is a single component of a healthy environment. As we all know, several Paul B components, or practices, are required to create an overall healthy environment where the animals survive and flourish long term.

If you look back through the posts, I never once suggested how to create a parasite free environment. I think some of Paul’s replies may be where you got that idea. I never suggested that at all.

Chris

 

[mcarroll]

I never suggested that at all.

Please consider water sterilization for your display tank, just as Paul does.

Quotes about sterilizing water aside, what exactly are you trying to suggest with all these posts?

That all tanks in history without an ozone generator are unsuccessful? That ozone is the one aspect of Paul's Method™ that's the real key to it all?

Fish in the sea face WAY more direct exposure to microbes than animals in other environments.

It's a mistake to look at this exposure as a problem.

Arguably that exposure is the reason for their success and the reason that the ocean is full of fishes. No ozone generators, no oxydators and no water sterilization.

(Why it's not even more full of fishes than it is is another question entirely. Why are there so few fish in the sea?)

If you just had to narrow it down to one thing, then I'd have to suggest that the key to Paul's success is the time he has spent over the years to learn. (I.e Experience.) :)

Fortunately for us, that means that his method is accessible to everyone.

Unfortunately for us, that means his method can't be purchased in a box or in a bottle. ;)

 

[atoll]

Hi atoll, I proposed that good water quality is a single component of a healthy environment. As we all know, several Paul B components, or practices, are required to create an overall healthy environment where the animals survive and flourish long term.

If you look back through the posts, I never once suggested how to create a parasite free environment. I think some of Paul’s replies may be where you got that idea. I never suggested that at all.

Chris

It's not what you suggest it's what you infer and that in some way without ozone his fish would not stay parasite free as his water would be of such poor quality without ozone. Yes I know you haven't suggested how to create a parasite free environment, good water quality is debatable with regards a parasite free environment esp given on the face of it Paul's water quality is anything but good and yet his fish stay parasite free even though he is convinced he has plenty of them in his tank. So the real question here is how come. Paul has tabled a number of questions which nobody seems either capable of providing any real answer to. BTW I know of 2 guys here in the UK who have very high nitrates and phosphates and yet have wonderful SPS tanks, I must admit I am at a loss to explain how that is. On the other hand, I have very good water quality, don't use ozone, don't add mud, don't feed blackworms and don't quarantine but my fish have been disease free for 27 years and we are not alone. I would wager if Paul stopped using ozone his fish would still stay disease free.

 

[Mandelstam]

If you look back through the posts, I never once suggested how to create a parasite free environment. I think some of Paul’s replies may be where you got that idea. I never suggested that at all.

Chris

Well you stated that Paul is sterilizing his water with UV/ozone. A thing is either sterile or not, there isn't anything like "half sterile". And being free of parasites is a big precondition of being sterile. That's how I read your post anyway.

 

[Dogtown]

Well you stated that Paul is sterilizing his water with UV/ozone. A thing is either sterile or not, there isn't anything like "half sterile". And being free of parasites is a big precondition of being sterile. That's how I read your post anyway.

You won’t find that I have said Paul is sterilizing his water. He improves his water quality by incorporating a low dose sterilizer into his regimen. UV and Ozone generators are both commonly used sterizers in the commercial aquatics industry. Marineland Ontario Canada uses ozone sterilizers and you can google it. There is no comment of being parasite free, just to the point that the numbers are reduced, which creates a healthier environment for the animals when used properly. Not a silver bullet but an important part of an overall solution that Paul happens to employ. He is very good at it.

This dialog is beneficial for those new to the hobby.

 

[Mandelstam]

You won’t find that I have said Paul is sterilizing his water. He improves his water quality by incorporating a low dose sterilizer into his regimen. UV and Ozone generators are both commonly used sterizers in the commercial aquatics industry. (I am not familiar with peroxide based oxidizer systems). Marineland Ontario Canada uses ozone sterilizers and you can google it. There is no comment of being parasite free, just to the point that the numbers are reduced, which creates a healthier environment for the animals when used properly. Not a silver bullet but an important part of an overall solution that Paul happens to employ. He is very good at it.

This dialog is beneficial for those new to the hobby.

Please consider water sterilization for your display tank, just as Paul does.

I might be marking words here but I read your post like you were suggesting that Paul is sterilizing his water.

 

[atoll]

Oxydators are not sterilizers they introduce oxygen into the water and therefore increase the redox potential all done by a simple princess of converting hydrogen peroxide via a catalyst into what they term activated oxygen.

 

[Dogtown]

Oxydators are not sterilizers they introduce oxygen into the water and therefore increase the redox potential all done by a simple princess of converting hydrogen peroxide via a catalyst into what they term activated oxygen.

Someone mentioned that they use an oxidator and felt it best to let them clarify how it improves water quality.

 

[Paul B]

Paul, it might benefit newbies to explain to them how and why it is that you are able to maintain nitrates at 160 on an ongoing basis without experiencing ammonia poisoning problems. I'm not doubting your nitrate levels for a second. If they understand why you are able to do this safely, then they will understand why that number would be dangerous in most cases for others.

I won't try to answer this because I would only be guessing and I don't like to guess. I only like to post things I can prove.

My water quality is lousy because as I said many times, I have about 20 fish which I bought all as babies. They don't die so they all got big, some tripled in size which means that now I have way too many fish for my 100 gallon tank (I really think it is a 90 but I never measured)

My copperband alone grew from quarter size to about 5". I want all my fish spawning and immune which they are. To do that they need to be over fed and overfed with the proper foods.
If I had the time I could change a lot of water and reduce the nitrates even though they don't seem to affect anything. I am sure I can't put delicate SPS in my tank which is fine because that is not my goal.

I know that is the goal of most people and that is fine. Lately I have been on a quest to get all the paired fish spawning and immune. If I was on an SPS quest I would improve my water quality and keep those as I have done for years in the past.

I am moving soon near the sea and I will change all of my water with NSW (my fish will probably get a stroke and croak) I don't care because my tank is an experiment and always has been. I am far past trying to keep things alive and healthy. I figured that out decades ago and I try to teach those methods to anyone who cares to learn. I am also far past trying to prove anything as I don't have to.

There are many things I don't know. That is the main reason I am experimenting and if I kill things or crash my tank, so be it. I will learn something from it.

I had many moorish Idols, I failed with all of them because to succeed with an Idol or any fish we need to keep it until it dies of old age. I am guessing an Idol lives about 12 or 15 years and as far as I know, no one with a home tank has ever kept one that long. My last one I kept about five years which is not a success. To learn about them I went to Tahiti, Bora Bora and Hawaii to dive with them and I learned their habits and what they eat. I replicated that as much as I could and now, I think I can keep one much longer, but my tank is to small so I will wait until I move and get a larger tank.

People find copperband butterflies difficult, I have no problems with them.

Mandarins are another one and people try all sorts of things to keep them. They are easy and all you need is a few minutes a day to keep them. Mine have been spawning for many years as well as my pipefish and every other paired fish I have.

Very few fish are hard to keep, you just need to learn a few things about them and not from someone who started last Tuesday and has kept "One" of them for a few weeks.
People keep saying they are successful with certain fish for this reason or that. "WE are not successful with anything unless it does of old age"

 

[Paul B]

Today, and yesterday I am kind of sick and I very rarely get sick. But I am not as immune as my fish, I think that is because I have Grand Kids. I think I may have a touch of HLLE or velvet so my wife is giving me fresh water dips and dosing me with Przapro and coppersafe. My pH is 8.4 but my PO4 is a little high.

My wife noticed I was sick because I was breathing air up near my ceiling.

I am only drinking RO/DI water and making sure the temperature is 78 degrees. I ordered some blackworms and will mix those with a little Mastick so I can stick them on the wall and I can snack off of that all day.
I will also darken the lights and keep my bully neighbors away.