Tank Bred Clownfish Quality Decline

[Onyxia]

After a long hiatus away from the hobby, I have been traveling to many local LFS and have seen what I think is the decline quality of captive bred clownfish. Many of them carrying clownfish from independent breeders to big name hatcheries all with glaring deformities. Nipped dorsals, crooked spines, odd head shapes, poor color, small pelvic fins. What was considered a cull back in the day seems to be the new "norm". The biggest offender, and I don't think some people realize, storm clownfish.. alot of them dont swim like the classic clownfish where they bob and swim in an S motion... its like theyre stuck swimming at a 45 degree angle...

This is a sad state of affairs, one would think in all this time the industry would be selling/ culturing better clowns.

 

[KrisReef]

They always were selecting for the odd ones, and once you start where does it end?

 

[D-Nak]

I can't even use the word "cull" in other forums because I risk being called cruel or inhumane. Once I have a free cubicle I plan to get a frogfish. Don't ask me what I'm going to feed it.

 

[Largeangels]

Very true. It is really disappointing that more attention is not paid to quality and attempt to fix the deformities. I guess as long as they sell they will keep putting out the same quality.

 

[Onyxia]

Very true. It is really disappointing that more attention is not paid to quality and attempt to fix the deformities. I guess as long as they sell they will keep putting out the same quality.

There needs to be awareness, and I think as hobbyists we should be informing those that will listen.

 

[Shnetts]

check out if any lfs near you sells clowns from the sea and reef hatchery. I have seen nothing but perfect clowns from them.

 

[coralmonsters.judy Verified Sponsor]

If ya can't do it right don't do it all is my motto.

 

[EuphyllinOHk]

A case study in overbreeding has already been done in the freshwater side of the hobby. Neon Tetras, guppies, mollies, goldfish, bettas, and many others are magnets for congenital and compromised immune system issues. Don't get me started on "balloon" varients. A couple years ago, the freshwater hobby moved something like 2 million Neon Tetras (an egg layer) so you could imagine the multitudes of live bearers, like mollies, that just get pumped out.

Seeing some of the "storm" or longfin clown variants makes me uneasy. It's not because I don't like the look of them (unpopular - I don't eek), but because they look like a step in the crippling direction that freshwater went towards. I'm all for captive bred options and I'm hoping that the size of the saltwater hobby stays small enough to discourage some of the "factory farm" levels of neglect that goes into the fish breeding of the freshwater hobby.

 

[Crabs+Shrimps-69]

A case study in overbreeding has already been done in the freshwater side of the hobby. Neon Tetras, guppies, mollies, goldfish, bettas, and many others are magnets for congenital and compromised immune system issues. Don't get me started on "balloon" varients. A couple years ago, the freshwater hobby moved something like 2 million Neon Tetras (an egg layer) so you could imagine the multitudes of live bearers, like mollies, that just get pumped out.

Seeing some of the "storm" or longfin clown variants makes me uneasy. It's not because I don't like the look of them (unpopular - I don't eek), but because they look like a step in the crippling direction that freshwater went towards. I'm all for captive bred options and I'm hoping that the size of the saltwater hobby stays small enough to discourage some of the "factory farm" levels of neglect that goes into the fish breeding of the freshwater hobby.

I agree that there's something wrong with neon tetras these days.

The ones I had in my tank never lasted more than a few months, but all 10 of my cardinal tetras have lasted over a year with no deaths so far!

Haven't seen any problems with clownfish I've seen for sale, but that might just because I'm lucky and have good LFSs.

 

[EuphyllinOHk]

I agree that there's something wrong with neon tetras these days.

The ones I had in my tank never lasted more than a few months, but all 10 of my cardinal tetras have lasted over a year with no deaths so far!

Haven't seen any problems with clownfish I've seen for sale, but that might just because I'm lucky and have good LFSs.

The problem with the neons is that they get very overbred, very inbred. It's unfortunate because they are very beautiful fish in planted tanks or blackwater tanks. "Neon Tetra Disease" seems to be the label given to their frailty - the cornerstones of which are spinal issues that worsen overtime and a fatally poor immune system. It is my understanding that cardinal tetras are mostly wild caught and don't have the same set of congenital issues. Parallel to the captive breeding efforts, there are efforts at sustainable harvesting on the rivers. Project Piaba is one of the groups trying to improve collection practices.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

After a long hiatus away from the hobby, I have been traveling to many local LFS and have seen what I think is the decline quality of captive bred clownfish. Many of them carrying clownfish from independent breeders to big name hatcheries all with glaring deformities. Nipped dorsals, crooked spines, odd head shapes, poor color, small pelvic fins. What was considered a cull back in the day seems to be the new "norm". The biggest offender, and I don't think some people realize, storm clownfish.. alot of them dont swim like the classic clownfish where they bob and swim in an S motion... its like theyre stuck swimming at a 45 degree angle...

This is a sad state of affairs, one would think in all this time the industry would be selling/ culturing better clowns.

Some breeders are also selling younger/smaller clowns in order to increase their throughput.

 

[Onyxia]

check out if any lfs near you sells clowns from the sea and reef hatchery. I have seen nothing but perfect clowns from them.

Sea and Reef has some nice ones, but they aren't immune. My local has them, and many have the characteristics I'm talking about.

 

[Shnetts]

they defiantly arnt immune, I would say thats on your local then. Not putting in the effort to select the good clowns.

 

[Ocellaris123]

The ocellaris type clowns look better than the perculas ime. Captive bred picassos arent what they used to be, with alot of them having torpedo shaped bodies and deformed fins

 

[Onyxia]

The ocellaris type clowns look better than the perculas ime. Captive bred picassos arent what they used to be, with alot of them having torpedo shaped bodies and deformed fins

Ocellaris have always been the easier to raise fish, complete newbies seem to do a decent job getting good body structure from them. So I agree with you there.. And yes its rare to see a good picasso these days. Its nutty how ORA the originator of the picasso, has some pretty stale releases. I think the Bali lineage, from Bali have pretty good shapes to them.

 

[Ackk]

check out if any lfs near you sells clowns from the sea and reef hatchery. I have seen nothing but perfect clowns from them.

I'll second this. I ordered 2 Davinci clowns from cultivatedreef, which get them from sea and reef, and they were absolutely perfect. I was going through the same as the OP and couldn't believe the state of clowns after being away from the hobby for more than 10 years.

 

[Ocellaris123]

I made a similar thread about this a few years ago on here when looking for a pair of picassos, now i have two pairs of black storms with good body shape but it did take a while to find them

 

[mook1178]

They have been selecting for genetic mutations for generations. It is like dog breeds now, they come with their own issues. Want a fully healthy dog, get a mutt. Want a healthy clownfish, get a standard ocellaris, percula, etc

 

[Largeangels]

If we take water quality and fry running into the sides of the tank out of the equation is micro algae fed rotifers good enough to start the clownfish off on and then brine shrimp until they eat pellets? Are they missing certain minerals, vitamins, etc. in the beginning that is causing deformities? Something missing from the parents diet? Anyone looked into this in detail?

 

[D-Nak]

If we take water quality and fry running into the sides of the tank out of the equation is micro algae fed rotifers good enough to start the clownfish off on and then brine shrimp until they eat pellets? Are they missing certain minerals, vitamins, etc. in the beginning that is causing deformities? Something missing from the parents diet? Anyone looked into this in detail?

I've looked into this, but there are still too many unknowns and multiple factors working in tandem. For example, I've tried "spinning" babies in grow out to get them to not bump their heads on the tank/tub walls, but some still have defects. That said, some turn out perfectly fine, so it's not purely an environmental issue that affects all of the babies. Another factor I'm experimenting with is greenwater--how much do we tint the water to allow the babies to see the prey and how much is too much? I'm wondering if the different types of greenwater might mitigate gill flares, with is often only associated with excess ammonia.

Lots of questions, not many answers.