Tank on the second floor

[barbianj]

Can you point me towards the thread showing the weight only at either end? I'm curious how you could end up with distribution only at long ends

All three of my tanks, two 125's and a 180, have four legs with no center supports. The tanks don't even touch the stands in the centers, I can slide a piece of paper between them.
The important factors, that have already been pointed out, are leveling and keeping the tank in one plane, and distributing the weight across the floor. I've seen well built steel stands that have failed because the narrow legs were set directly on the floor, causing the stand to twist.

Another important factor with having a big tank upstairs is, you gotta carry that beast up there!

 

[BlazinNano]

I had 55 gallon chiclid tank on the second flow of my apartment. It was on one of those cheap metal stand from petco. It had about 60-70 lbs of rock in it. There was also a 20 gallon turtle tank under it. It had no center supports just four legs. I never once had a problem with it. It sat in the same place for a year and a half.I don't even know how the joints in the floor where layer out and it was not on an outside wall.

 

[Jcr's Reef]

Why do army tanks have tracks, bulldozers, excavators? To create more surface area. Army tanks can go through the mud with tracks on them right? Now put car tires on them and what happens when they try going through mud? They sink.
Can't really say your 120g should have collapsed in the middle like you stated above, because 3 sides where supported right? I know I can get away with just supporting the very ends, making only 2 points of contact with 120g tank, only if the tank can support the weight itself though, and the uprights being used to support the tank is perfectly plumbed and don't move with any kind of vibrations, but I wouldn't trust it with my little kids lives by any means. Any kind of movement will put stress somewhere on a poor design like that though and fail at some point.

I love learning so please explain...
Here's the reason I don't believe the above theory and I'll try to explain it. Its kind of like why army tank have tracks.
The tank stands we use are not built on 4 legs or suspended by cables, but could be if one wanted to. Most stands are built with only 1 point of contact to the floor, a rectangle or square shaped foot, no legs. But lets say for kicks we are using a table for a tank stand. If I were to take a basic 4 legged table and set a tank on top, yes the weight would put pressure at all 4 corners because that is how its designed. It only has 4 legs to support the weight, right? Thats if none of the horizontals break that is carrying the weight to the ends. Simply putting a scale under those 4 legs would further more state that if everything is level, the weight would be distributed evenly to each leg. Now lets say we now added 2 more legs and we put them in the middle of the table, dead center, and we now have a scale under all 6 legs. You telling me that only the legs on the 4 corners are going to carry the weight, and the scales under the middle legs will display significantly less numbers? Whether it be 6' or 600' long, every vertical upright will take on weight. The middle is usually most always the weakest point if left unsupported because it would be the largest span left unsupported, right? But to irradiate my comment up above, thats why I stated it really depends on how its designed. You can build it to distribute weight evenly, or put stress on the ends, or just make a poor design.
You do raise good points and I understand what you are saying, but I'm still not 100% that anything we build, weight will automatically be carried to the ends.

 

[Wy Renegade]

All three of my tanks, two 125's and a 180, have four legs with no center supports. The tanks don't even touch the stands in the centers, I can slide a piece of paper between them.
The important factors, that have already been pointed out, are leveling and keeping the tank in one plane, and distributing the weight across the floor. I've seen well built steel stands that have failed because the narrow legs were set directly on the floor, causing the stand to twist.

Why do army tanks have tracks, bulldozers, excavators? To create more surface area. Army tanks can go through the mud with tracks on them right? Now put car tires on them and what happens when they try going through mud? They sink.
Can't really say your 120g should have collapsed in the middle like you stated above, because 3 sides where supported right? I know I can get away with just supporting the very ends, making only 2 points of contact with 120g tank, only if the tank can support the weight itself though, and the uprights being used to support the tank is perfectly plumbed and don't move with any kind of vibrations, but I wouldn't trust it with my little kids lives by any means. Any kind of movement will put stress somewhere on a poor design like that though and fail at some point.

I love learning so please explain...
Here's the reason I don't believe the above theory and I'll try to explain it. Its kind of like why army tank have tracks.
The tank stands we use are not built on 4 legs or suspended by cables, but could be if one wanted to. Most stands are built with only 1 point of contact to the floor, a rectangle or square shaped foot, no legs. But lets say for kicks we are using a table for a tank stand. If I were to take a basic 4 legged table and set a tank on top, yes the weight would put pressure at all 4 corners because that is how its designed. It only has 4 legs to support the weight, right? Thats if none of the horizontals break that is carrying the weight to the ends. Simply putting a scale under those 4 legs would further more state that if everything is level, the weight would be distributed evenly to each leg. Now lets say we now added 2 more legs and we put them in the middle of the table, dead center, and we now have a scale under all 6 legs. You telling me that only the legs on the 4 corners are going to carry the weight, and the scales under the middle legs will display significantly less numbers? Whether it be 6' or 600' long, every vertical upright will take on weight. The middle is usually most always the weakest point if left unsupported because it would be the largest span left unsupported, right? But to irradiate my comment up above, thats why I stated it really depends on how its designed. You can build it to distribute weight evenly, or put stress on the ends, or just make a poor design.
You do raise good points and I understand what you are saying, but I'm still not 100% that anything we build, weight will automatically be carried to the ends.

Please see the above quote. You are correct in part with your examples; in the case of the tank, bulldozer, etc the weight is distributed across the width of the track rather than the length of it. Once again even on a tank or bulldozer were is all the weight sitting? If you've ever worked on the same, you know that the four points of weight contact are the four corners; the additional "supports" that run the length of the tracks are simply rollers to support the track and keep it in line so it doesn't jump off of its point of alignment and so it can run over higher points of ground contact without high centering. Have you ever seen a five legged table or desk? My parents have five legged dining room table, the middle leg never makes contact with the floor unless a extremely high amount of weight is set directly in the center of the table. Am I telling you that the middle legs will carry less weight, yes I am. Am I telling you that they carry absolutely no weight, no I'm not. Do I recommend building a stand for a six foot long tank with no additional supports other the two ends, no I don't. Do I believe that a 6' tank can support its own weight when filled if supported only on the two ends, yes I know for a fact that it can. Like the example above, I have a 6 foot tank that sits on top of a counter; the counter top is not flat. I can slide a sliver of wood under the middle of the tank on both sides and out almost all the way to the ends; that tank has been sitting in the same location for the last 15 years and has a weight of at least 1200 pounds probably more. Its on the second floor of a building, in a classroom; 20 to 24 students enter and exit that building every 50 minutes every day of the school year.

In your above example with the table, if the legs of the table are centered under the four corners of the stand, the four legs will support the tank regardless of the existence of the flat portion of the table. Do I believe that this is a good design? No I don't, but does the entire length of the tank support the same amount of weight equally distributed? Obviously not - if it did, the entire glass bottom would have to be equally supported, not just the four edges. Now keep in mind that this is true because as you stated, the long support (in this case the glass) distributes the weight out to the outer edges. Is there a limit to the amount of weight the long support can distribute? Absolutely, the same theory is used in figuring the size of truss or joist required to support the weight of your home. In a room in your home do you have equal and even supports under the entire span or just on the edges? Thus, this does not work with tanks composed of acrylic, because they have the ability to flex, and therefore weight is not distributed to the outside edges.

Consider a tractor trailer, horse trailer, or grand piano. How many points of ground contact do all these things have? Three to five, a single point at one end and four tires 3/4 of the way back (except the grand piano - all three of its points of contact are towards the outside edges. You telling me that these items are poorly designed? If your theory of weight evenly distributed across the entire length of the span was correct, these trailers would require axles as regular spaced intervals all along their entire length.

Also FYI, if you look at the majority of stands that are engineered to support tanks, they do not have a rectangular or square shaped foot. Almost every metal stand constructed has four points of contact or feet of some sort, and most wooden stands truly have only two (the two end boards). The rectangular base or "foot" is something that most hobbiests add to their tank construction, its not usually something you find on a factory constructed stand.

 

[-drew-]

I'm in the same boat with the big tank on the second floor question, but my situation involves a 180 reef and a concrete building with concrete floors.

Will this end badly?

 

[drainbamage]

I'm in the same boat with the big tank on the second floor question, but my situation involves a 180 reef and a concrete building with concrete floors.

Will this end badly?

In short-No

In longer-don't want to get into structural codes cause apparently it's a hot topic and I'd rather not break out stress-load diagrams, I have to do enough of that crud during the week :bigsmile:

 

[kershak]

good answer

 

[Paul_N]

Yea, but then we have to start talking about how due to the fiber structure of wood, compression strains are actually greater resisted with age as the wood dehydrates further and the fibrous cords tighten and gain strenght. Or we'd have to talk about how the engineered wood products are designed to accept counter-balanced forces to prevent issues of long term weight, giving them their adage of "an elephant can stand on it and you would never know."

I like my fuzzy math-it's so much nicer than the engineering tables I used to play with when I was in the construction industry :tongue:

I like the fuzzy math much more also....:wink:

 

[Wy Renegade]

I'm in the same boat with the big tank on the second floor question, but my situation involves a 180 reef and a concrete building with concrete floors.

Will this end badly?

Absolutely not.

In short-No

In longer-don't want to get into structural codes cause apparently it's a hot topic and I'd rather not break out stress-load diagrams, I have to do enough of that crud during the week :bigsmile:

Sorry if it seemed like thats what I did, was certainly not my intention. I simply wished to point out that there are some other considerations that should be taken into account when considering this.

 

[Hyprviperx]

it would probably be wise to factor in the total of the avg. weight of however many people can squeeze in front of your tank to look at it. you could end up adding a lot of weight to the floors that were never even factored in. five of my friends looking at my tank add an extra 1000 lbs to the weight on the floor

 

[drainbamage]

Sorry if it seemed like thats what I did, was certainly not my intention. I simply wished to point out that there are some other considerations that should be taken into account when considering this.

Not at all, I took our discussion as an example of your signature text- I just realise sometimes on forums it's tough to not want to keep replying to discussions, which end up sidetracking the original thread. I learned on some religion/political forums as a teenager how sometimes I need to just shut up and not keep expanding a discussion :bigsmile:, so was just sorta doing that while trying to acknowledge that my answer wasn't THE answer, just A/AN answer.

 

[Wy Renegade]

Not at all, I took our discussion as an example of your signature text- I just realise sometimes on forums it's tough to not want to keep replying to discussions, which end up sidetracking the original thread. I learned on some religion/political forums as a teenager how sometimes I need to just shut up and not keep expanding a discussion :bigsmile:, so was just sorta doing that while trying to acknowledge that my answer wasn't THE answer, just A/AN answer.

Acknowledged - just didn't want it to feel like I was trying to say I had THE ONLY answer either. Thanks for the discussion.

 

[Harry_Y]

I once remember someone saying is a floor cannot support
a water bed than the house should be condemmed.

I think a watered weighs more than a reef tank,
and you usually put in in the middle of the room.