Tank Transfer Method

[Antics]

Dave,

As long as you're spending time during TTM to observe the fish I think you'll be fine waiting for your observation period. I've always done TTM + Prazi followed my observation. There will be plenty of light to observe behavior and physiological symptoms during TTM.

 

[Tyler Sullivan]

Awesome thread!

 

[Jahalu]

When making the new water, do we have to seed the filter? Or just run a new filter?

Will fish be okay in brand new water,

My method is to do a water change on my display and then use my discarded display water for the transfer. It seems to b a little better than using brand new water, and my main display gets some extra water changes.

 

[spiritwalker]

I've read many but not all comments and have a question.. apologies if this was asked/answered already..

Can you treat with cupramine during the tank transfer method for a bit of extra protection and be able to deal with velvet risk at the same time?

I think I am going to try TTM with my next batch of fish.

 

[Humblefish]

Can you treat with cupramine during the tank transfer method for a bit of extra protection and be able to deal with velvet risk at the same time?

Yes, but it would be redundant to do both because copper also treats ich.

 

[spiritwalker]

Yes, but it would be redundant to do both because copper also treats ich.

Thanks for the response!

 

[miroch]

Looking for recommendations. I am leaning towards TTM. I am currently building a new DT. I have 7 fish in my current DT and few have ich. They seem to have had a good immunity to it so far (it's been about 5 years since the last sign)but I would like to eradicate the ich completely before the move to the new tank.
My current plan is to have the new display set up and running, start the fish in TTM, and leave the old DT fallow for the 76 days. Once the TTM is complete, move the fish to the new DT(Just sand and some pvc for hiding spots.) Once the old DT passes 76days fallow, move rock, coral, and inverts.
Any better options?

 

[spiritwalker]

Seems like a good plan. Only fish can transfer via TTM. Everything else must go through fallow period.

Looking for recommendations. I am leaning towards TTM. I am currently building a new DT. I have 7 fish in my current DT and few have ich. They seem to have had a good immunity to it so far (it's been about 5 years since the last sign)but I would like to eradicate the ich completely before the move to the new tank.
My current plan is to have the new display set up and running, start the fish in TTM, and leave the old DT fallow for the 76 days. Once the TTM is complete, move the fish to the new DT(Just sand and some pvc for hiding spots.) Once the old DT passes 76days fallow, move rock, coral, and inverts.
Any better options?

 

[DLHDesign]

Question on TTM;
If I have too many fish to do TTM in a single tank (eg; everything in my DT), is there any concern with splitting the fish into two (or more) tanks (eg; 4 tanks in total)? Is there concern with aerosol cross-contamination having the tanks next to each other that would invalidate the TT goals?

 

[Humblefish]

Question on TTM;
If I have too many fish to do TTM in a single tank (eg; everything in my DT), is there any concern with splitting the fish into two (or more) tanks (eg; 4 tanks in total)? Is there concern with aerosol cross-contamination having the tanks next to each other that would invalidate the TT goals?

Nope, not a problem. Even if a free swimmer were to "travel" via aerosol transmission, it's the same as infecting a fish in that same tank. TTM is designed to basically outrun ich's known lifecycle, so at the tail end you shouldn't be dealing with any more free swimmers.

P.S. You got ich in your DT? How did you get ich?

 

[DLHDesign]

That was my thought as well. Thanks for the confirm!

 

[HKfshkpr1]

Edit: A more detailed article covering TTM can be found here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/spars-tank-transfer-method.209690/

Tank Transfer Method: Treats Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) only.

How To Treat - Tank transfer (TTM) is probably one of the most underused and underappreciated resources in our hobby. To properly execute TTM you need two tanks (or buckets), with dedicated equipment for each tank (not to be shared between the two). I personally use 2 of the 10 gallon tanks to do TTM, each with its own heater, thermometer, air stone, airline tubing and PVC elbows for hiding places. This is how TTM is implemented:

• Day 1 - Fish is placed in initial QT.
• Day 4 - Roughly 72 hours later transfer the fish to new tank. The time of day you do the transfer is unimportant, but never exceed 72 hours from the last transfer. The temperature and SG of the new tank should match the old one perfectly, so you can just catch & release (no acclimation). Transfer as little water as possible with the fish.
• Day 7 - Repeat.
• Day 10 - Repeat.
• Day 13 - Repeat and done (fish should now be ich free).

After transferring, immediately sanitize the "old tank" and all equipment using bleach or vinegar. Rinse well. Let air dry thoroughly before next use. The air drying is the sterilization process when using vinegar, or detoxification process when using bleach.

Simply put, this process works because you are literally outrunning the parasite's known life cycle. If a fish is infected with ich, trophonts will leave the fish at some point during the TTM process, and the encysted stage doesn't have enough time to release theronts (i.e. free swimmers that re-infect the fish) before the fish exits the tank. Ammonia isn't much of a concern with TTM, because every 3 days the fish is placed in a new tank with new water; or you always have the option of using ammonia reducers, such as Amquel or Prime, in conjunction with TTM since there is no risk of negative interaction because no medications are present. However, you do have the option of dosing Prazipro (if you need to deworm) at the tail end of transfers 2 & 4 (or 1 & 3). The fish only needs 24 hours of exposure time to Prazipro, so dose 24 hours before you are set to make the next transfer. A second round of Prazipro is required 5-7 days after the first, but again dose the medication 24 hours before you are set to transfer the fish out. Just remember if you do this that you can't use any ammonia reducers while Prazi is present in the water.

One of the cons to tank transfer is the amount/cost of saltwater needed to do it. For example, using my 2-10 gallons I go through 50 gallons of saltwater before the TTM process is complete. However, a thrifty hobbyist can use water stored from a recent display tank water change to implement TTM. Obviously, this only works if you are 100% confident that your display tank is disease free and don't siphon anything off the bottom. The other problem with TTM is netting the fish every 3 days. That concern can be somewhat alleviated by using a plastic colander in lieu of a net to catch the fish (square ones work better than round ones):

Pros - Chemical free solution to ich, highly effective when performed properly, can be combined with deworming via Prazipro.

Cons/Side Effects - Cost (if using all new saltwater), time/effort expended, probably somewhat stressful on the fish being caught every 3 days, does not treat other parasites such as velvet, brook, uronema.

Edit: A more detailed article covering TTM can be found here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/spars-tank-transfer-method.209690/

Tank Transfer Method: Treats Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) only.

How To Treat - Tank transfer (TTM) is probably one of the most underused and underappreciated resources in our hobby. To properly execute TTM you need two tanks (or buckets), with dedicated equipment for each tank (not to be shared between the two). I personally use 2 of the 10 gallon tanks to do TTM, each with its own heater, thermometer, air stone, airline tubing and PVC elbows for hiding places. This is how TTM is implemented:

• Day 1 - Fish is placed in initial QT.
• Day 4 - Roughly 72 hours later transfer the fish to new tank. The time of day you do the transfer is unimportant, but never exceed 72 hours from the last transfer. The temperature and SG of the new tank should match the old one perfectly, so you can just catch & release (no acclimation). Transfer as little water as possible with the fish.
• Day 7 - Repeat.
• Day 10 - Repeat.
• Day 13 - Repeat and done (fish should now be ich free).

After transferring, immediately sanitize the "old tank" and all equipment using bleach or vinegar. Rinse well. Let air dry thoroughly before next use. The air drying is the sterilization process when using vinegar, or detoxification process when using bleach.

Simply put, this process works because you are literally outrunning the parasite's known life cycle. If a fish is infected with ich, trophonts will leave the fish at some point during the TTM process, and the encysted stage doesn't have enough time to release theronts (i.e. free swimmers that re-infect the fish) before the fish exits the tank. Ammonia isn't much of a concern with TTM, because every 3 days the fish is placed in a new tank with new water; or you always have the option of using ammonia reducers, such as Amquel or Prime, in conjunction with TTM since there is no risk of negative interaction because no medications are present. However, you do have the option of dosing Prazipro (if you need to deworm) at the tail end of transfers 2 & 4 (or 1 & 3). The fish only needs 24 hours of exposure time to Prazipro, so dose 24 hours before you are set to make the next transfer. A second round of Prazipro is required 5-7 days after the first, but again dose the medication 24 hours before you are set to transfer the fish out. Just remember if you do this that you can't use any ammonia reducers while Prazi is present in the water.

One of the cons to tank transfer is the amount/cost of saltwater needed to do it. For example, using my 2-10 gallons I go through 50 gallons of saltwater before the TTM process is complete. However, a thrifty hobbyist can use water stored from a recent display tank water change to implement TTM. Obviously, this only works if you are 100% confident that your display tank is disease free and don't siphon anything off the bottom. The other problem with TTM is netting the fish every 3 days. That concern can be somewhat alleviated by using a plastic colander in lieu of a net to catch the fish (square ones work better than round ones):

Pros - Chemical free solution to ich, highly effective when performed properly, can be combined with deworming via Prazipro.

Cons/Side Effects - Cost (if using all new saltwater), time/effort expended, probably somewhat stressful on the fish being caught every 3 days, does not treat other parasites such as velvet, brook, uronema.

Someone suggested transfers in 48 hrs instead of 72 hrs. What are the pros and cons of those 2 time intervals?

 

[Humblefish]

Someone suggested transfers in 48 hrs instead of 72 hrs. What are the pros and cons of those 2 time intervals?

48 hrs would be more foolproof (outrunning ich's known lifecycle) and allow more wiggle room for ammonia. But it is also more work, more expensive (cost of salt), and more stressful on the fish (being caught/moved more frequently).

 

[HKfshkpr1]

48 hrs would be more foolproof (outrunning ich's known lifecycle) and allow more wiggle room for ammonia. But it is also more work, more expensive (cost of salt), and more stressful on the fish (being caught/moved more frequently).

Great! Now it's much less stressful for me to have to meet the exact time, worrying about the effect of higher tank temp( due to weather), and ammonia issue. From now on I'll go with 60 hr+/- but will make at least 5 transfers. Thank you very much!

By the way there won't be a big difference with the amount of salt because we'll need "more" water each time when using 72 hr intervals( water needs to last 1 more day to avoid ammonia build-up).

 

[ScooterV]

I ended up doing TTM about every 48 hours. It seemed if I treated for ich or velvet, I had bacterial problems. If I treated with anti-biotics then I had velvet issues. Not to mention the time I didn't notice velvet and cut observation short, to the detriment of all the previously healthy fish

I ended up going with every 48 hours for a couple of reasons. First, it may cost more in salt, but it matches anti-biotic treatment. They are all 24 or 48 hour treatments. They would then need a water change anyway, so time for the next tank instead! I also "felt" it allowed me to address bacterial issues, without ich or velvet going wild. The TTM itself was working on ich. While TTM can't "cure" velvet, with every 48 hours I hoped I was at least out running the worst of it until I was sure there were no more bacterial issues, then into CP they went. TTM, in my case, was no longer there to treat for ich even, it was to hold other things at bay while I used anti-biotics. I had been having TERRIBLE luck with infections! Hmmm, tunnel vision on infections may have played a role in missing the one with velvet

Anyway, just some thoughts on using various methods to suit your needs. Obviously it's MUCH easier to go 48 hours when you have a mixing station I'm using fish from an expert from this point on, when I can help though

 

[HKfshkpr1]

I ended up doing TTM about every 48 hours. It seemed if I treated for ich or velvet, I had bacterial problems. If I treated with anti-biotics then I had velvet issues. Not to mention the time I didn't notice velvet and cut observation short, to the detriment of all the previously healthy fish

I ended up going with every 48 hours for a couple of reasons. First, it may cost more in salt, but it matches anti-biotic treatment. They are all 24 or 48 hour treatments. They would then need a water change anyway, so time for the next tank instead! I also "felt" it allowed me to address bacterial issues, without ich or velvet going wild. The TTM itself was working on ich. While TTM can't "cure" velvet, with every 48 hours I hoped I was at least out running the worst of it until I was sure there were no more bacterial issues, then into CP they went. TTM, in my case, was no longer there to treat for ich even, it was to hold other things at bay while I used anti-biotics. I had been having TERRIBLE luck with infections! Hmmm, tunnel vision on infections may have played a role in missing the one with velvet

Anyway, just some thoughts on using various methods to suit your needs. Obviously it's MUCH easier to go 48 hours when you have a mixing station I'm using fish from an expert from this point on, when I can help though

You're right! After treating ich fish often die because of bacteria infection. But I want to point out the use of salt would "not" be very different when going with 48 hrs or 72 hrs( to avoid ammonia build-up).
For example: if you have just one 3 inch tang or angel you'll need about 6 gal. of water to last for 72 hrs. But to last 48 hrs you prob just need 4 gal. Give or take................

 

[LeonThePeon]

Opinion:

While in the middle of TTM on some tangs (second transfer into third) - I noticed some bumps on two of them. They (hippo tang and purple tang) had what looked like goosebumps. Wasn't all over the body, but was on portions of it; not white - body colored; and was a little grouped together. I thought it may had been an onset of velvet.

So I took the two and put them in a tank that has been running copper - same exact temp and SG as TTM bucket they came from.

Today (next day) they're eating and swimming around just fine. No white bumps (ich/velvet).

Not having had pulled them out yet for closer examination, if those "goosebumps" are still there (or not) - can I put them back on the same TTM rotation with the others?

I was planning to do my second dose of Prazi (in case those bumps were black ich in the making) - 24hrs before transferring to fourth transfer. So I thought I'd put them back in so they can get the Prazi treatment before going into fourth tank.

Thoughts/Opinions?

 

[Brew12]

Opinion:

While in the middle of TTM on some tangs (second transfer into third) - I noticed some bumps on two of them. They (hippo tang and purple tang) had what looked like goosebumps. Wasn't all over the body, but was on portions of it; not white - body colored; and was a little grouped together. I thought it may had been an onset of velvet.

So I took the two and put them in a tank that has been running copper - same exact temp and SG as TTM bucket they came from.

Today (next day) they're eating and swimming around just fine. No white bumps (ich/velvet).

Not having had pulled them out yet for closer examination, if those "goosebumps" are still there (or not) - can I put them back on the same TTM rotation with the others?

I was planning to do my second dose of Prazi (in case those bumps were black ich in the making) - 24hrs before transferring to fourth transfer. So I thought I'd put them back in so they can get the Prazi treatment before going into fourth tank.

Thoughts/Opinions?

Sounds like a stress response to me.

 

[LovesDogs_CatsRokay]

Can I use General Cure in transfers 2 and 4 of TTM instead of Prazi? And if so ... should I? I have a small coris wrasse starting TTM today and I know wrasses can be sensitive to Prazi. Are they less sensitive to General Cure?

 

[Humblefish]

Can I use General Cure in transfers 2 and 4 of TTM instead of Prazi? And if so ... should I? I have a small coris wrasse starting TTM today and I know wrasses can be sensitive to Prazi. Are they less sensitive to General Cure?

Yes, GC in an acceptable substitute for Prazipro and is gentler on wrasses.