Chris Villalobos
Active Member
Ha! I knew all that refugium light was killing my chaeto!!! Most all reefers were telling me my chaeto was doing poorly because I didn't have enough light!!! Thanks for confirming my suspicion!
Tank Trials: Ultra Low Maintenance Tanks | BRStv Investigates
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Ha! I knew all that refugium light was killing my chaeto!!! Most all reefers were telling me my chaeto was doing poorly because I didn't have enough light!!! Thanks for confirming my suspicion!
I’d say that aquarium controllers should be used for as many tasks as possible with a ULM tank. The monitoring they provide gives valuable piece of mind for owners that have to leave their aquariums for extended periods and remote control of certain components allows for problems to be fixed before they crash the tank without having to return home. The only drawback with reliable control systems is how expensive they can be. I’m hoping to develop my own aquarium controller using arduino and raspberry pi and would love to hear from anybody who has attempted something similar.
Shawn Dahl
Well-Known Member
Another awesome video. I too selected the Aquatic Life T5 Hybrid for my tank. I have been debating with myself about which LED I would select between the Kessil and Radion, but I really want to see what can be done with the Radion equipped with the diffuser so that is the selection I made, the XR30 g4 pro. I will just dial the intensity way back. I am experimenting with T5 bulb options for it and currently have 2 blue+ and 2 actinic.
I am curious why your cheato did not adapt well. I also used Algae Barn cheato and run my Kessil H380 8 hours. 20:00 to 04:00. What is the height of your light above the cheato. Mine is about 15" above the cheato and have already harvested 2 softball size clumps in the past month.
I am curious why your cheato did not adapt well. I also used Algae Barn cheato and run my Kessil H380 8 hours. 20:00 to 04:00. What is the height of your light above the cheato. Mine is about 15" above the cheato and have already harvested 2 softball size clumps in the past month.
DarrylJ
Community Member
only if you have all the bells and whistles it will be a ULM, but if you have half the the equipment to monitor all aspects you would still have to put your hands on.
If you're starting new to the hobby you will need to do the daunting task of maintenance... As They say paying the dues.
Thank you Ryan for all your info from the past Big Fan
rtparty
2500 Club Member
Makes total sense. I would be the same way. Sounds like Ecotech needs to engineer it again to handle that droop. Shouldn't be tough since the fixtures used should always be the same weight.We discussed that but the arm does have a bit of droop to it. Not as easy to see from the front but mounted on the side my OCD alarm would go off every day
Back when I tested the Panorama fixture for Ecoxotic, we discussed this exact thing and they made it adjustable so you could control that droop.
I find even simple controller implementation saves time spent on the tank.
-long term temp monitoring, easy to pick up on a heater or chiller not performing when have a whole chart to look at.
-same can be said for ph, look at a month’s of data and suddenly a change on one day, maybe i should check my dosing pump calibration.
You’re videos on lighting have been very informative, having had ai’s on my tank for several months now; i used the settings found in the brs videos and have not touched them since. Have seen vast improvements in growth, pe and color.
-long term temp monitoring, easy to pick up on a heater or chiller not performing when have a whole chart to look at.
-same can be said for ph, look at a month’s of data and suddenly a change on one day, maybe i should check my dosing pump calibration.
You’re videos on lighting have been very informative, having had ai’s on my tank for several months now; i used the settings found in the brs videos and have not touched them since. Have seen vast improvements in growth, pe and color.
My controllers head unit died while I was on vacation. I did not have the cash to replace it. So I went back to how we did things in the old days and put the necessary items on timers and I have not missed a beat. Controllers are nice definitely not necessary and in the end could add to the overall maintenance because you just can't help but mess with it especially when you have to reprogram it when adding or removing equipment.
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Another awesome episode! Your choice in kessils (especially the kessil t5 combo) makes me happier than a pig in mud. Excited to see next week's episode and what you guys come up with as I'm not a big controller fan. I don't have any type of controller because A. That level of control intimidates me with all the prgramming and script writing, and B they are expensive. The wife would kill me if I spent 800 dollars on an apex.
Newb73
Valuable Member
In my experience a chateo ball is constantly dying, and constantly feeding off the released nutrients.
Some times ill let mine grow until its almost filled in the space and turned inti a cube...other times i keep it trimmed back.
Sadly, I have found my salinity probe to be worthless so far.
A few caveats
1) I run 2 part so a bit of precipitation isn't a concern
2)I pull from the bottom of my resivoir and i have a mixing pump run for 5 mintes every half hour, also at the bottom. .
Some times ill let mine grow until its almost filled in the space and turned inti a cube...other times i keep it trimmed back.
Yes it makes my maintenance lower. With all the leak detectors, flow meters, back ups, and redundancy my tank is practically self aware and can take action for leaks, broken pumps, temp problems, lighting issues, ph issues, even orp issues, remote feeding, etc.
Sadly, I have found my salinity probe to be worthless so far.
Tank seems more stable when its over grown.I use mine over 14 days.
A few caveats
1) I run 2 part so a bit of precipitation isn't a concern
2)I pull from the bottom of my resivoir and i have a mixing pump run for 5 mintes every half hour, also at the bottom. .
tacosricos
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These BRS series are great!!
I use my controller to dose and control the heater. To me it is a valuable tool that allows me to monitor the tank remotely, and log my test results. It gives me peace of mind when I'm away from the tank for long periods of time, and in that sense fits into the ULM concept for me.
I use my controller to dose and control the heater. To me it is a valuable tool that allows me to monitor the tank remotely, and log my test results. It gives me peace of mind when I'm away from the tank for long periods of time, and in that sense fits into the ULM concept for me.
Hey Ryan,
Feeling bittersweet right now after watching the latest ULM video. It was absolutely brilliant (as usual)! Full of practical, useable information and very interesting! Great to see how the three tanks are progressing too.
My problem lies with my location though. All of the brilliant products that you use are made in the USA and rarely available here in the UK. Every time you show me an affordable, top quality product I look for it online and find nothing even remotely similar for sale this side of the pond. The only thing we seem to be able to buy over here are the led lighting fixtures.
Please don’t see this as a complaint, I’m just disappointed that we don’t have a Bulk Reef Supply over here in the UK. I’ll just have to do my best to try and make my own equipment for now.
Keep up the great work!
Feeling bittersweet right now after watching the latest ULM video. It was absolutely brilliant (as usual)! Full of practical, useable information and very interesting! Great to see how the three tanks are progressing too.
My problem lies with my location though. All of the brilliant products that you use are made in the USA and rarely available here in the UK. Every time you show me an affordable, top quality product I look for it online and find nothing even remotely similar for sale this side of the pond. The only thing we seem to be able to buy over here are the led lighting fixtures.
Please don’t see this as a complaint, I’m just disappointed that we don’t have a Bulk Reef Supply over here in the UK. I’ll just have to do my best to try and make my own equipment for now.
Keep up the great work!
ReefBeta
Valuable Member
I think a basic controller is a must for ULM. But an advance one is not necessary.
Although continue monitoring parameters, like ph, kh, etc. is a very powerful tool, it's not really a ULM way. The more you see, the more you worry about, and more likely you want to "fix" it. So not continuously monitor parameter keeps out of sight out of mind, is probably more ULM
For me the most important part of a controller for me is several thing: feeding timer, ATO, temperature control (cooler or fan), and auto dosing for alkalinity, kalk or 2 part. Lucky every single controller on the market can accomplish them well. So there is not much need to go super advance controller like apex. A simple one like reefkeeper lite is sufficient for only ULM purpose.
Although continue monitoring parameters, like ph, kh, etc. is a very powerful tool, it's not really a ULM way. The more you see, the more you worry about, and more likely you want to "fix" it. So not continuously monitor parameter keeps out of sight out of mind, is probably more ULM
For me the most important part of a controller for me is several thing: feeding timer, ATO, temperature control (cooler or fan), and auto dosing for alkalinity, kalk or 2 part. Lucky every single controller on the market can accomplish them well. So there is not much need to go super advance controller like apex. A simple one like reefkeeper lite is sufficient for only ULM purpose.
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IronChefItaly
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While I agree this is a possibility I have to say for every report of this there just as many tanks running basically zero nutrients and producing stunning results. I have yet to hear a viable reason why a critical mass of low nutrient tanks out there produces nothing but success. There just has to be more to it than this. The hobby is large enough now that if you want to find "x method, level or additive" caused something awesome or something terrible you will find a mass of reefers who share that point of view, particularly if it "sounds plausible" . Plausible and best guesses have really has replaced facts in many areas of our hobby. I think it is helpful to remember everything we thought we knew 5 years ago ends up being wrong in some way or another
In many of these cases, I think it is found not in what similarities the tank share but actually what is different. It is very likely more about the history of the tanks chemistry and how the method, additive or filter was implemented. In many cases more related to the stability of water chemistry than it is about finding the perfect level. If you have 100 GFO, Vodka, Biopellet users and some portion have negative results but a large portion of users have positive results my gut tends to believe the difference lies within how it was implemented or something unique to that system that made it successful or not.
Those are all very good points and you do nail the fault in my statement. The product itself is known to produce positive results but its the improper implementation of it that can be destructive - that's what I was trying to get at and I did miss the fact that ULN systems exist. A question for you Ryan, knowing that there are very successful systems out there that operate on both extremes of nutrient levels; ultra low nutrients OR 20+ ppm nitrate. Is it truly stability that makes it work or are there other condition specific mechanism at play. In other words, how is it possible to get enough nutrition to corals with common skimming and filtration when operating near zero PO4 and NO3. Likewise, how can such high nitrates exist in a system without seeing any stress in the livestock or excessive algae growth?
SantaMonica
Valuable Member
This is interesting. I've heard that a few times about Australia and South Africa, but not UK. And anything can be shipped to UK if it's not there already.
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The conundrum
Identifying the difference between correlation and causation. All too often a correlation of I did X and Y happened in reefing is translated into a "reef fact" as long as it sounds plausible. This is true even when there is very little evidence of direct causation and only a portion of reefers experience those results. I think we get closer to causation when we identify what other similarities the users share. To be frank with something like biopellets, GFO, vodka , refugiums and similar ULN type tanks the mass of users is so large that it is inevitable that some portion will have similar issues.
AT BRS we have the unique position that we talk to tens of thousands of reefers a year and on the phone, people are often able to give a better picture of what is happening. Most people on the phone are also a bit more likely to share some of the system or approach faults than they are on a public forum. I think one of the best examples of the disparity between what is commonly repeated on forums and what I see in person is "gfo will bleach your corals by stripping all the nutrients out and starving your corals." I believe this is 99% simply because it seems "plausible" and got repeated enough times, not because there is any evidence suggesting causation, just correlation in a small portion of experiences.
I guess it could be true that the resulting near zero phosphate causes bleaching but talking to reefers this is likely happening to less than 1 in 100 people. Just reading the reviews I think it could be even lower. This much I can guarantee, if anyone puts something they bought from us in their tanks and it kills corals we are going to hear about it. Considering the hundreds of thousands of pounds of GFO we have sold over the years there would be an overwhelming amount of negative feedback, we would have to have a special forces team just to field these calls and in reality, it is a question we get a handful of times a year.
I think the same could be said of the belief that activated carbon causes head and lateral line erosion (hlle). There might be a correlation there in a small percentage of users but if it was direct causation none of us would be debating it. There is such a huge critical mass of carbon users over multiple decades who have never experienced that its almost imposable there is simple direct causation without at least some type of additional factor.
Possibilities
So why do some experience issues with products like GFO but also similar ULN methods? It's the million dollar question.
- Maybe the tank is less than stable to begin with so any significant chemistry change stressed the coral. Keep in mind on a scale of 1-10 most people would not be able to visually assess the coral's health until it gets as low as a three or four and shows visual signs of deterioration or distress. Most people can easily be riding on the edge of 5 and never know it.
- Could be how they use it, maybe 20x the recommended amount.
- Maybe they liked how it tumbled so it turned it on turbo, ground it up and released a ton of fines.
- Maybe the 1 in a 100 are those who have rediclious levels of nitrate and an extreme Redfield ratio imbalance between nitrate and phosphate.
- It is valuable to look at who uses GFO, its often a mix of brand new reefers who use it just because it seemed like a good idea or someone who has very high phosphate levels and wants to get them down. I will note that very high phosphate levels are an indication of minimal contaminant export methods so users of a specific additive or food may have other issues than nutrients stressing the corals.
- Stability - Making drastic changes one way or another always has the potential to produce undesirable results. It will likely take 3-6 months for the corals to fully adapt to the new water chemistry. So change slowly and when you change leave it alone. Going high or low nutrients are very often knee-jerk reactions to either something negative going on in the tank or just the desire to constantly change things.
- Goals - The goals are different for reefers in different stages. In the beginning, it is often zero algae and fast growth so high phosphate levels inhibiting calcification may be an issue. In an older robust tank growth can actually just mean a lot of work managing growth so the tank doesn't get overgrown. Slower growth in older robust tanks may actually be desirable.
- Age of the tank - New tanks in the 1-2 year range are 1,000 times more likely to run into algae issues related to high nutrients. Old tanks often have very little habitat for algae because all of the surfaces are covered in coralline or corals. Older tanks also have a robust algae grazing populations most notably microfauna but also fish and inverts.
- Natural selection - A vast majority of the awesome 5-10 year tanks out there will openly admit they have had plenty of corals die and the tank is ultimately filled with corals with corals that survived. Corals are amazingly adaptive creatures so most will adapt to the environment you provide. So many of these tanks are just filled with "those that lived" in either environment. As long as that environment is stable.
- Extreme goals require effort - Most of the tanks that are examples of "why high nutrients don't matter" are the net result 5 year plus robust tanks that may have not always been that way but are now. For every example of a tank that shares this mentality and general maintenance practices, there is a pretty healthy share of failures overun with algae and didnt make it past year two because of that. Same can be said with ULN you need you make sure there is enough nitrogen and phosphorus for the corals. Similar to the oceans reefs, as long as is consistently above absolute zero throughout the day there is probably enough. It is possible there may benefit with a controlled more. In any case, most of the success stories will be those who emulate others successful methods from the beginning or look for a retail method that a critical mass of reefers have been successful using and resist the temptation deviate from what produces successsucess.
For what it is worth, part of the reason we do tank builds like the clown harem tank, BRS 160 and now the ULM tanks is you get a chance to follow the whole story from beginning to end. I think it is critical to know not just what's working now but how you got there.
For example, prior to this, there was a pretty significant debate if you can house that many clowns in a single tank. I think that debate is over, as long as you manage food and habitat aggression with a plan from the beginning and make minimal changes to their environment it is actually pretty darn easy. Same with the BRS160, this is a near zero nitrate and phosphate tank but rich with food input and you get to see the story from day one.
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