The Angel Lovers Thread

[LaloJ]

Love my Angels!

Oh man, look at those little gems!

 

[Zionas]

It has come to my attention that P. Diacanthus not only forms pairs, but can also form harems under the right conditions. I got this in the angelfish book by Scott W. Michael and I’ll be checking with books by Randall and Allen. Basically Michael says although pairs are most frequently seen, whenever there’s enough coral growth and number of fellow Regal Angels, the most natural and preferred thing for them is one male and 2-3 females. Michael said the same about the Goldflake (A. Xanthopunctatus).

 

[LaloJ]

That is interesting, to be honest, I have never seen pictures of Goldflake angelfish in pairs and less with 4 or 5 individuals, although maybe I have searched wrong. I hope those CB regal angelfish come into your hands and you can pull off a threesome like Copps did.

 

[Zionas]

Copps had an awesome trio. And that was in his old tank. They look great together.

 

[i cant think]

Have you guys seen some of the nice misbar regal angels that have come into the hobby throughout the years, I saw one and it was beautiful but I wonder why they gain missing bars or incomplete bars whereas the others have full bars.
Would be a sight to see if you got hold of one and had it in a trio though. Also after looking into the trio factor with regals more, it’s come to my attention that many of the fish we own prefer groups over pairs.

 

[i cant think]

Love my Angels!

I’m jealous, that tiger Angel is a beauty. Also love the true? conspicularis

 

[Zionas]

Yeah that would be awesome. Which sources have you been looking at? I’d love to know.

 

[i cant think]

Finally found a decent photo of my Angel before he lost his pattern and became I think a subdominant male, he’s definitely not losing any more of the pattern.
When he was in the LFS

And the most recent photo of him (Yesterday)

 

[Zionas]

Add another female or two and I think he will revert back to his full male colors

 

[i cant think]

Yeah that would be awesome. Which sources have you been looking at? I’d love to know.

Several books I have say they prefer harems, a lot of them are mentioning it in similar ways as Michael does.

 

[Zionas]

Just so we have an idea of how much angels hate to be alone: This is well documented but the Lemonpeel, Half-Black and Eiblis would rather hybridize with each other than remain by themselves when there’s not enough of the same kind. Or in places where two species meet, mixed species groups aren’t a rare occurrence (such as Christmas Island).

Lamarck x Spotbreast hybrids have been documented before. The Flagfin in South African waters has been known to hybridize with the Kingi. The Koran Angel is very widespread and spreads it sees among both its own and a number of other species.

Flames and Rusty Angels hybridize in the Philippines where the Flame is rare and the Rusty is a lot more common.

Even three way hybrids (such as a Coral Beauty x Flame x Multicolor) that Copps documented at some point. A Coral Beauty x Multicolor made its way to Japan and was part of Koji Wada (founder of Blue Harbor)’s personal collection.

Chaetodontoplus septentrionalis regularly hybridizes with other “Velvet” angels of that genus, creating numerous variants of the so-called “Maze” Angel.

And I think there was a video of a Potter’s Angel harem in Hawaii that contained a few Centropyge fisheri.

Venusta x Multibar is an amazing one. I think 3 or 4 have been found to date. Queen x Blue creates the “Townsendi” Angel. Queen x Rock Beauty has been documented before. Clarion x Passer was documented maybe once or twice, usually a Clarion makes it’s way into an area where conspecifics are rare but Passer Angels are common.

Only the Regals aren’t known to hybridize at all. Too distinct.


(check this. I am sure this is an extremely rare occurrence, but what’s fascinating is they’re both Centropyge but belong to very different lineages and don’t occur together in nature at all.)

Judging from the way the Multicolor fertilizes the eggs from behind, what’s interesting is that the Multicolor is the male while they’re a smaller species than the Interruptus (which get to 6”- 15cm).

 

[i cant think]

Just so we have an idea of how much angels hate to be alone: This is well documented but the Lemonpeel, Half-Black and Eiblis would rather hybridize with each other than remain by themselves when there’s not enough of the same kind. Or in places where two species meet, mixed species groups aren’t a rare occurrence (such as Christmas Island).

Lamarck x Spotbreast hybrids have been documented before. The Flagfin in South African waters has been known to hybridize with the Kingi. The Koran Angel is very widespread and spreads it sees among both its own and a number of other species.

Flames and Rusty Angels hybridize in the Philippines where the Flame is rare and the Rusty is a lot more common.

Even three way hybrids (such as a Coral Beauty x Flame x Multicolor) that Copps documented at some point. A Coral Beauty x Multicolor made its way to Japan and was part of Koji Wada (founder of Blue Harbor)’s personal collection.

Chaetodontoplus septentrionalis regularly hybridizes with other “Velvet” angels of that genus, creating numerous variants of the so-called “Maze” Angel.

And I think there was a video of a Potter’s Angel harem in Hawaii that contained a few Centropyge fisheri.

Dang, I’d love to see a melanospilos x lamarcki. There’s so many of the hybrids I’d love to come across eventually, especially a 3 way hybrid!! I wonder what other Genicanthus angels tend to make a hybrid because you see a lot of the common lemonpeel x halfback (Or possibly cocosensis). My LFS has a cocosensis in but it looks more like a heraldi.

 

[i cant think]

That interrupta x multicolor would’ve had some nice hybrids if it was successful, wonder if the hybrids would also be cold water angels, because multicolor prefers cooler waters but interrupts prefers warmer waters right?

 

[Zionas]

Yeah apparently the Half-Black and Lemonpeel cross is not rare, what’s rare are the Lemonpeel and Eibli crosses, especially the ones that contain a balanced mix of both species’ traits. A good Tigerpyge (I know, one of your dream fish) is stunning to see. I didn’t even know there way hybrids existed until Copps showed off his “mystery angel”!!! He might still have it although I’m not sure.

I would not be surprised if the Bellus and Watanabei hybridized as they’re both deepwater species. Maybe Spotbreast or Watanabei with the Semifasciatus too as they’re all found in Japan and Semifasciatus is largely confined to Japan down to the northern Philippines. Lamarck’s seems to be fairly widespread so I wouldn’t be surprised if there was more Lamarck x other Genicanthus species out there.

Wild Genicanthus Hybrid makes a Splash in Hong Kong | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

Genicanthus hybrids are one of the rarest cross of all angelfishes and for reasons unknown, the resulting cross can be quite surprising. The latest specimen of hybrid Genicanthus angelfish to hit our…

reefbuilders.com

Genicanthus bellus hybrid is a magnificent treasure from Bali | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

There are rare fish in this world, and then there are RARE fish; fish that are so remarkable that money cannot buy. This is the true treasure for any rare fish fanatic. While peppermint angels are…

reefbuilders.com

 

[Zionas]

I’m not sure, actually. The hybrid offspring if raised successfully would certainly be interesting. Multicolors are known for being a “deepwater” fish but I am not sure how deep. Certainly not as deep as a Peppermint, Narcosis or the even deeper Abei. Interruptus are mostly found in southwestern Japan (not Okinawa, but more like Izu / Wakayama) where the waters are cooler. I’m not sure if ones collected from the northeastern Hawaiian Islands (as was the case for specimens that made it to the Waikiki Aquarium) do well in normal reef temperatures.

I always call the Heraldi a Lemonpeel that’s had a bit too many beers. Heraldi seem to be pretty common in Japan, but the Lemonpeel seems to be a much rarer occurrence. Heraldi can be found in the subtropical waters of the northern Ryukyus / Kagoshima region.

 

[OrionN]

 

[Zionas]

Nice. Have you tried keeping Regals as a trio before?

 

[OrionN]

I kept them in pairs only. In the wild they live in pairs. IMO you will have fights in trio.
With such delicate angels, I don’t want to risk it. I know that as adults, if they don’t pair up they will fight so my best guess is you will not able to keep trip in normal reef tank setting. 2-3000 gal tank then who know.

 

[OrionN]

 

[Zionas]

I find it amazing how you have more than one harem of Centropyge in your tank. How is the Bicolor harem doing? Any spawning yet? What about the Flames and Flamebacks?