The DSR Method (Dutch Synthetic Reefing)

[vlnemo]

My pH is 7.8 to 8.2 during 24 hours metering and my kh from 7.5 to 8ppm(I dont want to increase it). I use EZ buffer dropping in my tank every 4 hours. The evening drops are 20ml and day drops 13ml trying to keep my ph stady. Maybe i will increase night dropping and decrease day dosing for smaller fluctuation. IS it wise to start dosing a pH+ to my tank? 6 small doses trying to race it? What will be the benefits ? Growth? Is it going to affect my Kh?

 

[vlnemo]

My pH is 7.8 to 8.2 during 24 hours metering and my kh from 7.5 to 8ppm(I dont want to increase it). I use EZ buffer dropping in my tank every 4 hours. The evening drops are 20ml and day drops 13ml trying to keep my ph stady. Maybe i will increase night dropping and decrease day dosing for smaller fluctuation. IS it wise to start dosing a pH+ to my tank? 6 small doses trying to race it? What will be the benefits ? Growth? Is it going to affect my Kh?

Metering with Salifert Ph

 

[dank reefer]

Question.

I'd like to start using the EZ method on my wife's 60g cube tank that had maybe 1 water change since it's been up and running about 6-8 months or so. Should I start off with a water change before I start dosing, or just measure and dose?

I am also looking at using this method on the new WB 270.6. And since it's new what salt would the group recommend to start off with using this method? Any salt that ALK will be where I'd like to keep it at, or is there a specific salt that works better for a new build.

My last 150 build ran without a water change for 11 months running a Triton Hybrid method and I was impressed with growth and color from my SPS, and the ease of the tank pretty much running on autopilot. Tank ran between 9-10dkh
440-500 CA
1300-1350 MG
10-20 N03
0.1-0.05 Po4

 

[dank reefer]

Well, I’ve finished this thread. I’d already decided I would be using the EZ system (I don’t have anything close to the money it would take to import the proprietary elements for the full blown DSR system, and I am a philosopher and applied behavioral therapy technician so the hard core chemistry is far beyond me). I do have a question, however. Well, a couple.

I’m in the process of building my first reef. I want to do what Glenn has done and have a truly mixed reef. I have my lighting (three noopsyche k7 2s), skimmer (reef octopus 150int), and will be running a vectra m1. Before discovering DSR I was planning on running a refugium external from my sump for more water volume and additional biological filtration in the form of some truly live rock (kp or Tampa bay saltwater rocks) and some macro. I also had been planning on a Ca reactor but that at least I’m no longer planning (my wallet is grateful). My Dt is 120g and I was planning on using primarily marco rocks for ease of scape.

so my questions are: 1) if one is running DSR and/or the EZ system, is it counter productive to try and maintain a traditional macro algae based refugium?

2) if so, is it worth still having the extra water volume and live rock, or should I not worry about it? I think I read somewhere that most of the Dutch reefers seem to view live rock as more of a source of pollution than a benefit with the additional bacterial diversity.

3) would an ecotech vectra be a suitable pump for a power filter? The only powerhead/stream pump I have at the moment is a maxspect xf330. I may pick up another pump(s) if needed, but I’d rather not have the power filter in my display and I’m not even sure how a gyre pump would even work with the filter floss wrapped around.

Not sure if you got the Power filter sorted out, but you do not want to use a Powerhead/Streamer as a PF. You can use your return pump as the power filter by adding some PVC and then the perforated PVC pipe to wrap the floss around it. Or if you have a smaller return pump (sicce .5,1.0,1.5 or similar) handy then you can use it as the PF. I used a spare Sicce .5 pump and rigged it up as a PF and its currently in my sump. I am trying to get some magnets that are strong enough to move it to the DT as Glenn recommends.

 

[biecacka]

Will using a non controllable pump as a power filter pump cause it to burn out?

corey

 

[glennf]

Will using a non controllable pump as a power filter pump cause it to burn out?

corey

No, they are just fine. I have been using them for years now.
Now i prefer the jebao dcp2500 because they are very quite compared to the tunze i used before

 

[Dennis Cartier]

Curious, I am not sure if this question is still relevant, I might have old info, but is the EZ-DSR method balanced for sulphate? I had read some of your older threads that made it sound like you were not accounting for or worried about sulphate imbalance, but I just noticed on the EZ-Trace that it mentions sulphate as one of the components. So is the EZ-DSR designed to maintain the ratios like say the balling method is?

I am glad to see that Deltec is now selling it within North America. That will make it much easier for people on this side of the ocean to purchase.

Dennis

 

[glennf]

Curious, I am not sure if this question is still relevant, I might have old info, but is the EZ-DSR method balanced for sulphate? I had read some of your older threads that made it sound like you were not accounting for or worried about sulphate imbalance, but I just noticed on the EZ-Trace that it mentions sulphate as one of the components. So is the EZ-DSR designed to maintain the ratios like say the balling method is?

I am glad to see that Deltec is now selling it within North America. That will make it much easier for people on this side of the ocean to purchase.

Dennis

There was alway a posssibility to correct suphate using the sulphate calculator.
Www.DSRreefing.com/scalc
If sulphate is deficient you can use MgSO instead of Mg+ to raise magnesium and suphate.

In the EZ program sulphate is included.

 

[hautfr]

Hi all,
Quick question please. I am planning to set-up a 2000 liter / 500 US Gal full SPS tank using the DSR method. However, I am planning to use a calcium reactor (Ca / Mg mix) and kalkwasser/hydroxyde reactor (running only if pH or KH go below a certain value). So these will provide KH, Ca and Mg. Then I would use DSR dosing of Ca, Mg and KH only to adjust in case levels run low despite this (unlikely for Ca and KH) and obviously dosing the other solutions (trace etc.). The reason for that is that otherwise I would have to dose Ca Mg and KH solutions for very significant volume given expected size of the tank. would doing so cause any issue, instead of dosing all components according to DSR method?
Many thanks,
Fred

 

[Reefahholic]

Glenn, I’m curious if you still target the same Nitrate and Phosphate values.

What are N&P targets today? :-)

 

[glennf]

Glenn, I’m curious if you still target the same Nitrate and Phosphate values.

What are N&P targets today? :)

Same as before. Look into the calculator
Http://dsrreefing.com/compactcalc/

 

[glennf]

Hi all,
Quick question please. I am planning to set-up a 2000 liter / 500 US Gal full SPS tank using the DSR method. However, I am planning to use a calcium reactor (Ca / Mg mix) and kalkwasser/hydroxyde reactor (running only if pH or KH go below a certain value). So these will provide KH, Ca and Mg. Then I would use DSR dosing of Ca, Mg and KH only to adjust in case levels run low despite this (unlikely for Ca and KH) and obviously dosing the other solutions (trace etc.). The reason for that is that otherwise I would have to dose Ca Mg and KH solutions for very significant volume given expected size of the tank. would doing so cause any issue, instead of dosing all components according to DSR method?
Many thanks,
Fred

I can be done, but pure dosings are more convenient, requires less equipment, so less points of failures.
For this reason I abandoned the use af calcium reactors years ago.
Read about it Reef Hobbyist Magazine Q1 2014:
"A flourishing reef" starting @page4
https://issuu.com/reefhobbyistmagazine/docs/7d3d5bcad324d3edc08e40738e663554-q1/4 11

 

[Belgian Anthias]

I've been reading everything I can get my hands on about DSR and would like to know more specifics about the use of ozone (apologies if this has been covered elsewhere). How much ozone, how often (24/7 or on a set schedule), any specific equipment recommendations, etc. If anyone is using DSR, could you elaborate on your specific ozone setup? Thank you in advance.

You are advised about the possible side effects using OZON in a closed marine system? if not, look it up before using.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Dinos are very ugly. I went through that two years ago and was able to beat them back using a UV sterilizer. It all depends on what strain of dinos you have as to what might work. You might want to take a look at this thread. There's a lot of useful information.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dinoflagellates-–-are-you-tired-of-battling-altogether.293318/

Using UV correctly '(enough radiation) only kills what is in the water passing the lamp. This means the available space and nutrients will be reused by organisms in the tank. Most dino's thrive in an environment poor in inorganic nutrients, being heterotrophic and scavenging o.a. on bacteria ( killed by UV), and having les competition for avaialble space because most other photosynthetic organisms need inorganic nutrients. UV provides a lot of dead organics which once broken down will provide inorganic nutrients for photosynthetic growth, in a nutrient poor environment then used fast by the dominant species.

 

[Reefahholic]

Same as before. Look into the calculator
Http://dsrreefing.com/compactcalc/

Thank you for that Glenn. Much appreciated!

The last question I have is about your expertise with carbon sources. As you know, picking the right source or sources is extremely important. Some seem to fuel not only the good bacteria, but also the bad. Which carbon sources do you currently approve of (which brands of Vodka or Sugar, if the “VS” in the calculator refers to that).? The specific brands are very important! Do you find it’s best to stop dosing completely when nutrients bottom out or just reduce the dose so that they never really bottom out and only get low. I’m curious how you handle this. Do you skip days or stop dosing all together until nutrients return to 2.5 & 0.06 ppm.? Clearly whatever your approach, it’s working well for you. :-)

 

[glennf]

I can be done, but pure dosings are more convenient, requires less equipment, so less points of failures.
For this reason I abandoned the use af calcium reactors years ago.
Read about it Reef Hobbyist Magazine Q1 2014:
"A flourishing reef" starting @page4
https://issuu.com/reefhobbyistmagazine/docs/7d3d5bcad324d3edc08e40738e663554-q1/4 11

Thank you for that Glenn. Much appreciated!

The last question I have is about your expertise with carbon sources. As you know, picking the right source or sources is extremely important. Some seem to fuel not only the good bacteria, but also the bad. Which carbon sources do you currently approve of (which brands of Vodka or Sugar, if the “VS” in the calculator refers to that).? The specific brands are very important! Do you find it’s best to stop dosing completely when nutrients bottom out or just reduce the dose so that they never really bottom out and only get low. I’m curious how you handle this. Do you skip days or stop dosing all together until nutrients return to 2.5 & 0.06 ppm.? Clearly whatever your approach, it’s working well for you. :)

Which and what ratio carbon is a large part of the succes.
I only apply pure vinegar and sucrose in my CarbonVS products because they have proven to work just fine.
EZCarbon is a mixture of CarbonVS + an iron supplement similar to Fetrace.
I never stop carbon dosing because it maintain the stability of the system. It's not only about phosphate and nitrate control. It's about "feeding/maintaining" the ecosystem in our tanks

 

[Reefahholic]

Which and what ratio carbon is a large part of the succes.
I only apply pure vinegar and sucrose in my products because they have proven to work just fine. EZCarbon is a mixture similar to Fetrace.
I never stop carbon dosing because it maintain the stability of the system. It's not only about phosphate and nitrate control. It's about "feeding/maintaining" the ecosystem in our tanks

So the EZcarbon contains only the carbon source and FeTrace contains the carbon source and Iron.?

 

[glennf]

So the EZcarbon contains only the carbon source and FeTrace contains the carbon source and Iron.?

Sorry for the confusion. I adjusted the original text to clarify

 

[Reefahholic]

Sorry for the confusion. I adjusted the original text to clarify

Thank you for the clarification!

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Thank you for that Glenn. Much appreciated!

The last question I have is about your expertise with carbon sources. As you know, picking the right source or sources is extremely important. Some seem to fuel not only the good bacteria, but also the bad. Which carbon sources do you currently approve of (which brands of Vodka or Sugar, if the “VS” in the calculator refers to that).? The specific brands are very important! Do you find it’s best to stop dosing completely when nutrients bottom out or just reduce the dose so that they never really bottom out and only get low. I’m curious how you handle this. Do you skip days or stop dosing all together until nutrients return to 2.5 & 0.06 ppm.? Clearly whatever your approach, it’s working well for you. :)

How bacteria will know what brand of sugar or vodka is added? When sugar is added to water, what happens? The brand may be important for the seller of the sugar and vodka. if one must make use of carbohydrates as an organic carbon source one can use technical grade chemicals to avoid the addition of side products. Sugar or and alcohol in seawater? if one wants to correct the C/N ratio, why not doing it by adjusting the protein content of the food source? What about the 3 pillars supporting the carrying capacity in the system ? What if too much organic carbon becomes available?
If too much organic carbon is added during a period of time and suddenly the dosing is stopped, what will happen with the ammonia produced and consumed daily? As pillar 2 ( nitrification) may not be available pillar 3 ( photo-autotrophs) will be able to grow +- 8x faster using ammonia as a nitrogen source instead of nitrate and hopefully they grow fast enough to support the carrying capacity. if inorganic nutrients ( nitrate, phosphate?)bottom out, this does not change much about the daily ammonia production of the moment. if heterotrophic bacteria do not grow, exponential decay is taking place, providing the carbon source for the energy needed for remineralization , producing more ammonia to be used up by autotrophs. Because the autotrophic based carying capacity has been removed or build off due to a long period of too much organic carbon the carrying capacity of the system may not be able to support the bio-load if dosing stops suddenly. This means dosing carbohydrates must be build of very slowely for the autotrophs to be able to follow the need, let us say over a period of at least 2 weeks.
If one adds an unnatural organic carbon source, carbohydrates, to a reef tank , before doing so one should know how much is too much. If you can not answer the question, please reconsider using it.