The DSR Method (Dutch Synthetic Reefing)

Discussion in 'Reef Chemistry by Randy Holmes-Farley' started by glennf, Jun 7, 2014.

  1. glennf

    glennf DSR User R2R Supporter

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    Explanation appreciated or not ?

    it is a way to work without water changed and composing your own salt (as a base).

    if appreciated i will go ahead and explain how it work for me and the dutch reefing community

    this is a screenprint of the excel sheet i use for water correction

    [​IMG]

    =========================================================================================

    Below i will be building an INDEX for all relevant posting:

    My Tank thread on R2R
    The original dutch DSR thread (Here it all got started)
    Many obstacles:
    Short summary of the DSR Method
    Why DSR?
    Cost for DSR
    Getting rid of pests/algae's
    DSR Method officially accepted on dutch forums (post [HASHTAG]#243[/HASHTAG] and [HASHTAG]#248[/HASHTAG])

    DSR calculator v141122nib:
    https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2144116
    Carbon Dosing to reduce Nitrate
    Recommended testkits

    Latest DSR calculator for beta testing. V150218mn beta
    https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/index.php?posts/2204853

    Why not sharing mixing formula's
    https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?posts/2107352

    sulphate correction
    https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?posts/2685306
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2016

  2. jt17

    jt17 Valuable Member Partner Member 2019

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    Very much interested Glenn. I've been fllowing your other thread and would like to know more. Thanks for sharing.
     
  3. Djtonton

    Djtonton Saltwater Addict

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    I have been following your tank build and its amazing! I would love to hear more!
     
  4. erk

    erk Valuable Member R2R Supporter Partner Member 2019 Build Thread Contributor

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    Please explain your method. Only through the failures and successes of others and ourselves can we learn how to advance this hobby.
     
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  5. fishroomlady

    fishroomlady Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award

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    although it probably would be too complex for me to implement, I'd enjoy reading more detail about the method
     
  6. glennf

    glennf DSR User R2R Supporter

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    Thanks for your input
     
  7. glennf

    glennf DSR User R2R Supporter

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    Thank you!
    Also thanks for the input
     
  8. glennf

    glennf DSR User R2R Supporter

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    That has always been my goal towards the dutch reefers. I had my fair share of failures, but I wouldn't be myself if i didn't find my own solution to problems.
     
  9. glennf

    glennf DSR User R2R Supporter

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    It's not that complicated, because i did the testing, the calculation and the thinking work and put it all into a excelsheet.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2014
  10. kidzaac87

    kidzaac87 Member

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    Sound great. Have looked at you calculator like to see the method behind this idea that has very spectacular results
     
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  11. glennf

    glennf DSR User R2R Supporter

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    this is a screenprint of the excel sheet i use for water correction
    the example is how to go about correcting water parameters for a 500L tank

    [​IMG]

    any question ?
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2014
  12. reefwiser

    reefwiser LMAS R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Article Contributor

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    So where you do not mention weekly testing this is only done at what interval? Monthly biweekly or what?
     
  13. glennf

    glennf DSR User R2R Supporter

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    It depends on the stability of that value.
    When stable at every measurement it can be done once every 2 up to 4 weeks.
    Magbesium, potassium and Boron i test once every 4-8 weeks because they are rock steady.
    Iodine and Strontium i dose daily and that is also stable now, so i measure once every 4-8 weeks.

    Those 3 (kh,ca, po4) value's can crash your tank within 2-3 weeks, so i choose to measure it weekly.
     
  14. beaslbob

    beaslbob Valuable Member North Alabama Reef Club

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    Interesting.

    FWIW I like what I call the leiden method especially for FW tanks. But there are many different definitions of what that is. To me it is just starting the tank with lotsa fast growing plants and then letting the plants control the tank. With marine systems you use algae (macros/turf) to accomplish the same thing.

    The key to reef tanks from what I understand is how you dose various things with cal, mag, alk being the big three. Hence various dosing schemes like balling, balling light, balling plus, and so on.

    But before any of that applies you have to first balance and stabilize the tank with algae, take care of the big three, and provide light and food the corals need.

    Meanwhile lotsa hobbists don't seem to realize that just water changes at hobbist levels will limit but not corrrect buildups and depletions of anything.

    still that's just my .02
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2014
  15. spsguru

    spsguru Member

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    Glen thank you for putting this out there! I am on year two of no water changes, top off only. Granted what I save on water and salt goes into supplements and food I can make a bag of salt last 6 months.
     
  16. glennf

    glennf DSR User R2R Supporter

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    I don't use the algea and try to avoid them from the start. Controlling nutrients can be done from the start bij carbon dosing and iron dosing. When within acceptable levels than introducing soft coral stabilizes it further. All the other parameter are the finishing touch.
    When these are under control WC can be omitted.
     
  17. mcarroll

    mcarroll PM me R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award

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    Interesting. I know at least one dealer about 5-7 years ago that was selling a very similar set of Brightwell supplements for a husbandry system that must have been at least a bit like this.

    However, it seems like one trades the cost (and simplicity) of water changes for the cost of test kits and additional supplements though.

    Any idea of the costs over a period of time like a year for a system full of large/fast-groing stony colonies?

    I'm already thinking that's >$200 worth of test kits - all with expiration dates. That's a lot of salt - with virtually no expiration.

    How about supplement costs though? Suggested sources for DIY reagents?

    -Matt
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2014
  18. kidzaac87

    kidzaac87 Member

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    Thanks GlennF
    where do you purchase the supplements from?

    and how do you deal with the nitrate export out of your tank?
     
  19. glennf

    glennf DSR User R2R Supporter

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    ========================

    Doing no WC is a subject that raises much opposition and controverse.
    Most of the time it ends up people doing WC start bashing on those who don't, because they are the mayority and they usualy get the upperhand.

    Most people trying to share how they do without WC, are being declared stupid and ignorant.
    I think some have a good point, but some are ignorant also (as with any other subject).

    Because being criticised constantly, those people don't even bother sharing. Why should they ????

    By thinking out of the box and share we all learn and move forward.

    =======================

    Back to your case:

    So you don't intentionaly do water changes and use one bag of salt every 6 month? On what water volume and where do you remove water from the system. What minerals and method do you use to prevent depletion of minerals.
    And how do you control your nutrient levels?

    I am very interested in how you manage and compare notes.
     
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  20. glennf

    glennf DSR User R2R Supporter

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    ........................
    A few question, but the answer is not that easy.
    I will try to give it a go.
    .........................

    Most system are developed to move money from one cash drawer to the other. That is also the weak point.
    The are all designed to be money makers. That's OK. Why not? Why should they develop it for free?
    But somethimes they need to do workarounds just to make the product value for the money they ask.
    Selling 200ml vinegar in a botlle for 40 euro won't do it for the consumers.
    So naming it " very exclusive bacteria food mix" will do the trick.

    So we get confused by all the namens.
    We add bacteria food from one brand and bacteria booster from the other brand. Maybe end up being the same substance and than overdose.

    The "placebo effect" do a lot "good" for some people. They believe the more more money they spend on a product the better it will should work.

    I believe in knowing what i put into the tank and controlling it. if i don't see improvement i will stop using it.

    My method was designed first for my own tank and was never to go commercial. But after the dutch reefing community start seeing my results they start asking question in my tank thread.
    Before that they were always declaring me mad to work this way.
    Soon they were open minded and watch how my tank developed from a mayorly soft coral tank into a full mixed tank with 180 thriving species.

    Some guys who tried everything "regular" with no result ended up asking me to guide them, which i did.
    By doing that i put all i know into writing on the forum to support them.

    This opened the eyes of others and they were willing to listen. I was invited on several local and neighbouring forums and ask for lectures on my way of working.

    After a while i got bored repeating myself time after time.
    So i laid down a blue print on the forum and wrote the calculator.

    This is where it took off in holland.

    To be continued.......
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2014
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