The Kessil versus Radion debate - why not use both?

[Karliefish]

So I’ve probably read just about every post out there on Kessil lights versus Radion lights and have concluded both company’s have extremely loyal fans. Both can growth corals, but use different approaches/technology and go about it in slightly different ways including the applications they run. What is most interesting is the “look” debate which seems to often come down to the Kessil Shimmer versus the Radion coral pop. Ok, please before anybody starts debating me on the term Radion “coral pop”, I’m only using it as that is often how its described on these forums. So now to my question....is there any reason why I can’t use both?. I want both the Kessil shimmer (but not a lot) and the Radion coral pop. One other thing you should know, I will be using ATI SunPower ATI T5’s (two 8 bulb fixtures)- these I have already bought and installed. My custom tank is currently being built and will be 365G (96” L x 34” W x 26”H). So what I’m thinking about doing is using a combination of 8 Radion X!5 Pros - 4 side of each of thank with 8 Kessil A360X’s in-between. I’ve included a drawing here to help make myself clearer. Is this an absolutely stupid idea of does it have some merit if I want shimmer plus pop. One final thought, if I went with Kessils only, will 16 T5 bulbs be enough to tone down the kessil shimmer - I do want some shimmer. So let the debate begin....

 

[Jon's Reef]

Here is what I would go with:

Go with Radion Blues for a blanket light, then turn the A360x towards the white side. You get nice white shimmer lines on a blue background. The other nice thing is you can dial in the PAR at different areas of the tank.

Here is my smaller scale setup with 2 XR15 blue and 1 A160 (polyplab filter)

 

[GuppyHJD]

Here is what I would go with:

Go with Radion Blues for a blanket light, then turn the A360x towards the white side. You get nice white shimmer lines on a blue background. The other nice thing is you can dial in the PAR at different areas of the tank.

Here is my smaller scale setup with 2 XR15 blue and 1 A160 (polyplab filter)

What size is your tank ? I love it.

 

[User1]

A lot of the misinformation that stems from these sort of debates is that it is always subjective at the end of the day. What we know is how the lights are manufactured, some par numbers, graphs, and anecdotal notes from hobbyists. To your question can you mix and match? Of course you can. However, I would ask why? To me it would seem like a lot more headache due to the difference of integration of ecosystems. What I mean is that the current situation within our market is not set with standards for inter ecosystem connectivity. They are all running their own controllers, connectivity cables, dongles, and apps. So no, I wouldn't recommend it but at the end of the day yes, you can. But should you? That is another story.

I replied to I think another thread of yours. I would consider looking at ATI's straton and Philips Coral Care Gen 2 and ignore the shimmer. I own Kessil's and love them. They are amazing products and a great company. They have a lot of history in lighting and there are many a successful tank running them past to present.

ATI knows T5's. They have a good panel design. Philips has a great track record over seas with the Gen 1 and improved with the design on Gen 2. Personally if I was to replace lights I would ask myself about the spectrum, maintenance, life expectancy, mounting, and lastly connectivity and make a decision after.

 

[SoggyNW]

If your only using the kessil for shimmer I would look at much cheaper options. Kessils tight led cluster us not unique and I can find a cheap led flood light that will produce excellent shimmer for under $20

 

[Karliefish]

Here is what I would go with:

Go with Radion Blues for a blanket light, then turn the A360x towards the white side. You get nice white shimmer lines on a blue background. The other nice thing is you can dial in the PAR at different areas of the tank.

Here is my smaller scale setup with 2 XR15 blue and 1 A160 (polyplab filter)

What a great looking tank (congrats) and your lighting is exactly the look that my wife and I are striving for. Do you happen to have a video? I curious to see what your shimmer looks like. My only problem with your suggestion is that I’m already committed to the two 48” ATI SunPower 8 bulb T5 fixtures which have already been installed. So this is why in my drawing, I show the ATI SunPower T5 Fixtures in the middle with the XR15’s and the X360’s integrated on each side of the T5 fixture. As a reminder my tank is 96”L x 34”W X 26” H. Thanks again for all your help here!

 

[Karliefish]

If your only using the kessil for shimmer I would look at much cheaper options. Kessils tight led cluster us not unique and I can find a cheap led flood light that will produce excellent shimmer for under $20

I actually want all the features/technology of the Kessils just trying to figure out how to tone-down the shimmer some. I’m worried that 12 Kessils will really create too much shimmer. So my thought was that either the ATI SunPower 8 bulb T5 fixtures down the middle will help with toning down the shimmer (these I’m already committed to) along with a few Radion’s might help.

 

[Karliefish]

A lot of the misinformation that stems from these sort of debates is that it is always subjective at the end of the day. What we know is how the lights are manufactured, some par numbers, graphs, and anecdotal notes from hobbyists. To your question can you mix and match? Of course you can. However, I would ask why? To me it would seem like a lot more headache due to the difference of integration of ecosystems. What I mean is that the current situation within our market is not set with standards for inter ecosystem connectivity. They are all running their own controllers, connectivity cables, dongles, and apps. So no, I wouldn't recommend it but at the end of the day yes, you can. But should you? That is another story.

I replied to I think another thread of yours. I would consider looking at ATI's straton and Philips Coral Care Gen 2 and ignore the shimmer. I own Kessil's and love them. They are amazing products and a great company. They have a lot of history in lighting and there are many a successful tank running them past to present.

ATI knows T5's. They have a good panel design. Philips has a great track record over seas with the Gen 1 and improved with the design on Gen 2. Personally if I was to replace lights I would ask myself about the spectrum, maintenance, life expectancy, mounting, and lastly connectivity and make a decision after.

Got it and tend to agree that this hobby should always first focus on taking complexity and multiple failures point out of any tank setup. Do you think that my two 48” ATI SunPower T5 8 bulb fixtures will tone-down the skimmer enough with 12 Kessil 360X’s - 6 360X’s on each side of the T5 Fixtures? You asked about my tank size: 96”L x 34”W x 26”H (365G). Thanks for all the input.

 

[Jon's Reef]

Here is a video with the Kessil on (first) and off (second). I saw it on a BRS discussion about combining light types. A combination of diffuse plus point is a good mimic of nature (the sky and nature).

The amount of light in your original drawing may be overkill. I would just sell the ATI's, then go with all LED. It sucks to sell something that is brand new, but in the FS forum you can normally recoup most of it. They don't dim over time (at least not dramatically), you can create nice morning/evening effects and you can create light zones easily. In my tank, the left has the XR15 set at 80% (for the SPS up top) and the right at 60% (For the LPS). If you need a little more light in one spot, you could even just drop out the XR15 and replace with an XR30.

 

[Jon's Reef]

What size is your tank ? I love it.

Waterbox 100.3 ( ~36x24x24)

 

[minus9]

I say do it! There are no rules when it comes to mixing lights, technologies, etc.... To me, it makes more sense to mix and match all of the unique characteristics each type of light offers. I use Orphek bars with my 360x’s and love the combo. The Orphek’s give me the extra pop and the Kessil’s give me spectrum, shimmer and coverage. The key to taming the shimmer is running them with a little more white and use the others for the deeper blue.
As far as the debate, it’s really ridiculous. Pretty much any modern led will grow coral, it’s just a matter of how many and how they are utilized. That being said, if I were to buy anything other than Kessil, it would be the new ATI Straton. I think a mix of Stratons and 360x’s would be stunning.
I think mixing different types of LEDs is the way to go (especially if the goal is all led), why not mix all the great qualities of each type of led if you can?

 

[jda]

People don't use both because you don't have to spend that kind of money to supplement ATI 8 bulbs. One, the other, or none would do just fine. Most people who use ATI use ReefBrites since they can bolt on and look like they belong on the fixtures.

If you don't care about the cost, then do whatever you want...

 

[45ZoaGarden]

People don't use both because you don't have to spend that kind of money to supplement ATI 8 bulbs. One, the other, or none would do just fine. Most people who use ATI use ReefBrites since they can bolt on and look like they belong on the fixtures.

If you don't care about the cost, then do whatever you want...

+1 it’s really kind of overkill. All of the above options will work equally well. I personally would pick one light brand and stick with it. Radion G5’s are new and unproven. They haven’t worked all the kinks out yet. Kessils have some issues too. I’d throw a few hydra 32’s or kessils instead if you want shimmer on there and be done with it. The T5’s will be the primary light source anyhow, I don’t see a reason to spend radion money.

 

[Karliefish]

Here is a video with the Kessil on (first) and off (second). I saw it on a BRS discussion about combining light types. A combination of diffuse plus point is a good mimic of nature (the sky and nature).

The amount of light in your original drawing may be overkill. I would just sell the ATI's, then go with all LED. It sucks to sell something that is brand new, but in the FS forum you can normally recoup most of it. They don't dim over time (at least not dramatically), you can create nice morning/evening effects and you can create light zones easily. In my tank, the left has the XR15 set at 80% (for the SPS up top) and the right at 60% (For the LPS). If you need a little more light in one spot, you could even just drop out the XR15 and replace with an XR30.

Jon was looking forward to watching your video’s but there is no videos - nothing is playing when i click on the play button.

Jom

 

[Karliefish]

Jom

Jon - there are no videos. Bummer was really looking forward to seeing what you had.

 

[Jon's Reef]

Maybe this will work:

 

[Karliefish]

Maybe this will work:

the videos worked - thanks. Really enjoy looking at your tank and liked the look of the first video. Is this one using the combo of Kessil and Radion? Question....does tunning the Kessil to use more white color soften the shimmer or do you turn down the intensity to reduce the shimmer?

 

[Jon's Reef]

The first is with the Kessil on. Reducing Kessil intensity mutes the shimmer, but the bigger effect is surface agitation. If you have a lot of random agitation, you will see more spotty shimmer. With a more gentle surface you will see longer shimmer lines. Ideally I like bright, long shimmer lines.

In real life it is more blue/ green color with the shimmer lines being a very bright white.

 

[Karliefish]

I say do it! There are no rules when it comes to mixing lights, technologies, etc.... To me, it makes more sense to mix and match all of the unique characteristics each type of light offers. I use Orphek bars with my 360x’s and love the combo. The Orphek’s give me the extra pop and the Kessil’s give me spectrum, shimmer and coverage. The key to taming the shimmer is running them with a little more white and use the others for the deeper blue.
As far as the debate, it’s really ridiculous. Pretty much any modern led will grow coral, it’s just a matter of how many and how they are utilized. That being said, if I were to buy anything other than Kessil, it would be the new ATI Straton. I think a mix of Stratons and 360x’s would be stunning.
I think mixing different types of LEDs is the way to go (especially if the goal is all led), why not mix all the great qualities of each type of led if you can?

Really appreciate your views here. Sadly, I didn’t learn abut the Stratons until after I bought the ATI fixtures and I’m not ready to turn right around and sell them - that just seems a bit crazy to me. I might check with the company that I bought them from and see what they would charge (restocking fee) to return them.

Also really appreciate your tip on how to tame the shimmer on the 360x’s - just use more white. I never would have guessed that was the key to reducing shimmer - brilliant suggestion!

 

[Karliefish]

The first is with the Kessil on. Reducing Kessil intensity mutes the shimmer, but the bigger effect is surface agitation. If you have a lot of random agitation, you will see more spotty shimmer. With a more gentle surface you will see longer shimmer lines. Ideally I like bright, long shimmer lines.

In real life it is more blue/ green color with the shimmer lines being a very bright white.

Hmmmm going to have 4 1” returns at the surface so there will be a fair amount of random agitation going on in my tank. I am learning so much from everyone! Thank you.