The opportunity cost of one Vortech MP60 - Greed in the aquarium hobby. Apex & Vortech & More

[Fish_Sticks]

The video was posted on page 3, for anyone interested.

Oh my gosh ! It is fantastic to see the the LFS owner give a talk about his philosophy in being a LFS. I have traveled to Chicago twice and both times we took the elevated to train to the little suburb where old Town Aquarium is located just for the experience of the train. The most recent trip it ended up being the high light of our trip. I posted about it in my thread build. The store is amazing, the tanks are incredible. I did not meet the owner but I did meet a manager, and another employee. The passion they have is so apparent. I bought dry goods to support them, btw. Thanks for posting the video!

 

[Oshengems]

The best part is that you are both free to purchase whichever product you'd like. You just have to evaluate the pros and cons of those products and their vendor support. If one person doesn't want to spend 600+ on a wavemaker, they don't have to. There are other wavemakers out there that cost less. If you are good with paying 600+ for a wavemaker because it provides peace of mind and good vendor support, then go ahead. Neither way is wrong if it works for that person.

Definitely that’s my point we have low,mid, high end options so many choices the hobby is not tied to a vendor, you see some more than others because some people rely on certain products based on past experienced, I went down the road of cheap equipment and my gf pointed out that cutting corners sometimes it’s more expensive than what we imagine it once you sum it up, she saw my frustration trying to fix my dead pumps.

 

[Fish_Sticks]

You think they're expensive, check out the hydro-wizard or the Tunze master stream. Those'll give you sticker shock.

"German designed and engineered" Anything made in Germany is going to be expensive. They've got less workers, materials, and quite a lot more marketing power. Or is it just the marketing power?

You would think that China with a population of 1.4 billion could produce and design products just as good as the German population of 83 Million and a few American knuckleheads, or perhaps better.

It seems that the amount of resources and labor a nation has does not determine the quality of their product, but rather their standards in regard to high quality. Or maybe it could be the amount of effort that goes into assuring consumers that the product is high quality. Marketing!

Could it be that China is actually better at making things than America and Germany, and that we've been conditioned to think that anything made in China is junk -- except if they are designed and sold by Americans and Germans?

Kinda like the mp40s, and mp60s which are also made in china at low cost, but have a fat innovation, customer service, marketing and brand sticker label markup slapped on top from the American distributor.

If you've been letting your Jebaos fill up with hair algea, silversides, suicidal anemones and crap for six months and wonder why they keep breaking, I feel bad for you.

For me, its too much smoke and mirrors to judge how much the product is actually better quality vs how much others are simply justifying their purchase and trying to prove that they haven't been marketed by the big boys. They know you love your fish and they're going to do everything they can to make you spend spend spend because they know you will. ;Greedy

Either way MP's are still not worth $675 and that wizard pump is not $2000. Come on thats ridiculous! Sure I don't have to buy it. I never will. I'm simply here to complain about how much price gouging is taking place and how many of you are shoving it under the rug with justification. It seems as if others are here to justify the product, but I'am sorry to say that it will never add up. You're all getting taken for a big fat ride, but hey, at least its got an all white interior and the seats are leather! ;Hilarious

 

[ca1ore]

Low cost country manufacturing (of which China is the most obvious example) is about labor arbitrage, it actually has very little to do with product quality. Wavemakers like Jebao are cheaply made because they are aiming for a specific lower price point. You could just as easily aim for a higher price point, as Apple does, and get much better quality from Chinese contract manufacturers. There is an incorrect tendency to conflate Chinese made with low quality. I also think if you plan to be in the hobby for the long-term, and look at lifetime ownership costs, the cheap pumps do less well. Maybe it's the Jebao owners that are going for the ride …...

 

[biecacka]

One should also factor in personal needs. Maybe the person with is 600 gallon 10ft peninsula tank only wants pumps on the side against the wall. Thus meaning the hydro wizard or MP60 meets his needs for water flow to the other side.
There are a TON of variables and the most important one is personal choice.

Corey

 

[BZOFIQ]

I think they listened... the prices are going up!

That's just straight up greed!

 

[TheHarold]

I think they listened... the prices are going up!

That's just straight up greed!

It’s not greed, it’s intelligence. If Vortechs and radions are flying off the shelves at their current pricing, why not try 10% higher?

Once again: it’s capitalism. Buyers set the prices.

And, I just bought another MP60wQD before the price goes up . Though I would probably buy one if they went up 10% anyway- thanks BRS for the heads up!

 

[Oshengems]

They listening alright lol

 

[Fish_Sticks]

The hustle is real.

 

[Oshengems]

The hustle is real.

Indeed! Dang it! lol can’t knock them tho

 

[Richard Hercher]

I cant wait till the patent runs out and everyone starts making this style pump and really tears into their price point

Sooo... in the US, a utility patent (patenting a function like motor design, not a cosmetic feature) is 20 years. The earliest Echotech patent for a Vortech style motor is from 2006. So 8 more years?
http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...ND&d=PG01&s1=60662771&OS=60662771&RS=60662771

 

[ryeguyy84]

Sooo... in the US, a utility patent (patenting a function like motor design, not a cosmetic feature) is 20 years. The earliest Echotech patent for a Vortech style motor is from 2006. So 8 more years?
http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/search-bool.html&r=8&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=60662771&OS=60662771&RS=60662771

9/22/2026 there will be a whole lotta new pumps coming out.

 

[Bpb]

I think the price point is likely a result of consulting with some financial people about the ideal price point to reach a certain desired bottom line. I don’t know this but I have a sneaking suspicion that they’re not quite as cheap to make at the end of the day as people think. All things considered, not just the plastic and wires.

Being said....it’s too rich for my blood. Simply because to this point, my two longest lived products in the hobby so far are my Cheap JBJ ATO I bought in 2012 that is still working fine, and my original two Jebao WP pumps. I’ve gone through tunze, vortech, and sicce pumps that have failed in one way or another and those two cheap products just keep working.

Did I get lucky with them, and unlucky with the more expensive counterparts? Probably. This hobby has turned into a fashion statement among the top 10% or so of customers of aquarium related products. People just want the latest most expensive product. It’s a status symbol.

I’ll be amused to see what happens in 2026 when that patent is up.

 

[MSB123]

I think the price point is likely a result of consulting with some financial people about the ideal price point to reach a certain desired bottom line. I don’t know this but I have a sneaking suspicion that they’re not quite as cheap to make at the end of the day as people think. All things considered, not just the plastic and wires.

Being said....it’s too rich for my blood. Simply because to this point, my two longest lived products in the hobby so far are my Cheap JBJ ATO I bought in 2012 that is still working fine, and my original two Jebao WP pumps. I’ve gone through tunze, vortech, and sicce pumps that have failed in one way or another and those two cheap products just keep working.

Did I get lucky with them, and unlucky with the more expensive counterparts? Probably. This hobby has turned into a fashion statement among the top 10% or so of customers of aquarium related products. People just want the latest most expensive product. It’s a status symbol.

I’ll be amused to see what happens in 2026 when that patent is up.

+1
The magnets alone are probably over $200.
Here is the one that is very similar to the one in the MP60.
https://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=DZ08-N52&cat=168
These are just like what they use, not the exact magnets.

 

[AwildcatsZ]

Ecotech replaced your Aqua Illumination lights? That is customer service!

EcoTech is AIs parent company. I call them for all of my questions.

 

[Ardeus]

I have been in the hobby for 13 years and in this time I have gone through american, european and chinese equipment, namely pumps.

Sometimes my experience clashed against the sense I got from the community in terms of which products are more reliable.

I got 2 mp10's and I was never pleased with them mainly because of the noise. One of them broke and the noise of the other got to a point where I decided to get rid of it.

I got my first Jebao. I kept waiting for it to fail. It didn't happen, so I bought more. One tiny RW-4 finally failed a few months ago.

Chinese fixtures kept on working for years and years.

I recently decided to get my dream tank and it's filled with chinese gear, which easily allows me to have spares stored in case of failure.

Even the Aquamedic fixtures are in fact chinese (rebranded). I honestly couldn't find a better light for my needs, no matter what cost. I think that the only non-chinese equipment are the heaters.

Now that I think of it, maybe the decision to have the cabinet in chinese red with chinese locks was subconsciously influenced by my good experience with their products

If money wasn't an issue, I would still pick chinese products 90% of the time. They are constantly updating their products, which helps them in correcting the faults they encounter quickly.

Of course, this would be a much more difficult decision if I lived in a country that manufactured these equipments. Support would be an important factor too.

 

[Dabcrusher]

I like my apex alot especially the feed mode turning my pump and skimmer back on . But it's not for everybody. Some people would rather spend their money on there kids and crap like that

 

[amazongb]

If all powerheads are the same, then why is my MP40W QD manual 19 pages? There's a lot of cost into the programming. wireless sync/anti-synch, master/slave etc.. I love that I can program various modes with my apex, reef crest, lagoon, nutrient export at various times throughout th

EcoTech is AIs parent company. I call them for all of my questions.

I learn something new everyday.. had no idea..

 

[Sarah24!]

Hello,

Clearly lol I have enjoyed reading this thread, I have and with said, we can all agreee to disagree. We all have those who can easily afford whatever they want and do just that. It’s their money, so it’s pointless to argue. But one of the threads here listed recently was I spent 6k and my tank looks terrible. (Read the thread for details) but it goes to show that you can spend tons of money, and a tank can look terrible, you can also spend very little and it will look terrible.

There are so many factors to this that it’s impossible to name just one. Those who love the apex they have their own reasons why they like it, and it’s fine. Me personally, I like the challenge so I don’t have one. I find all this automation as a simple perk. When it works, yay I can go spend time doing something else.

The one problem is, when things break they don’t know how to fix it. They must depend on others, to answer their phone or whatever. I would rather avoid that and just know that if my tank is failing it’s because I failed to check things daily. Yes I use wavemakers by currrnt USA and lights by them as well. So far 100% of the time when I have had an issue, I call and either get them on the phone or voicemail. Every time within 2 days, next day on my light, they have just sent me a new one. When I ask I don’t have return info for the old etc, they are no worries throw it away. Yes mine are cheaper, and what ever, but how many with the super spendy names get that service?

A close friend but three radions the g4 pro, and one quit working because of moisture as it hangs how high above the tank. Obviously they are being used around water, but she had to send it in. Not only did they charge her an arm and leg but made her pay shipping. I was clumsy enough to drop my current usa light into my tank. (Which was kinda like the titanic hitting the ocean floor, there was sand everywhere, but current sent a new one and said we are sorry.

As long as the customer service is amazing, I could care less if it’s the most expensive or least, (and does what it’s suppose to do). Like all of us, we all have different thoughts and theories about this. It’s the same with companies, Ecotech as one of them mainly care about money, and other companies care a little less about money, but also care about the people who allow them to keep their doors open.

 

[Hemmdog]

What is always breaking that you need to contact customer support? I have never had to call customer support for anything I have. Companies willingly sending you replacement products with no questions really asked also leads me to believe they are incredibly inexpensive to produce. Just wondering!

Hello,

Clearly lol I have enjoyed reading this thread, I have and with said, we can all agreee to disagree. We all have those who can easily afford whatever they want and do just that. It’s their money, so it’s pointless to argue. But one of the threads here listed recently was I spent 6k and my tank looks terrible. (Read the thread for details) but it goes to show that you can spend tons of money, and a tank can look terrible, you can also spend very little and it will look terrible.

There are so many factors to this that it’s impossible to name just one. Those who love the apex they have their own reasons why they like it, and it’s fine. Me personally, I like the challenge so I don’t have one. I find all this automation as a simple perk. When it works, yay I can go spend time doing something else.

The one problem is, when things break they don’t know how to fix it. They must depend on others, to answer their phone or whatever. I would rather avoid that and just know that if my tank is failing it’s because I failed to check things daily. Yes I use wavemakers by currrnt USA and lights by them as well. So far 100% of the time when I have had an issue, I call and either get them on the phone or voicemail. Every time within 2 days, next day on my light, they have just sent me a new one. When I ask I don’t have return info for the old etc, they are no worries throw it away. Yes mine are cheaper, and what ever, but how many with the super spendy names get that service?

A close friend but three radions the g4 pro, and one quit working because of moisture as it hangs how high above the tank. Obviously they are being used around water, but she had to send it in. Not only did they charge her an arm and leg but made her pay shipping. I was clumsy enough to drop my current usa light into my tank. (Which was kinda like the titanic hitting the ocean floor, there was sand everywhere, but current sent a new one and said we are sorry.

As long as the customer service is amazing, I could care less if it’s the most expensive or least, (and does what it’s suppose to do). Like all of us, we all have different thoughts and theories about this. It’s the same with companies, Ecotech as one of them mainly care about money, and other companies care a little less about money, but also care about the people who allow them to keep their doors open.