The Other Way to Run a Reef Tank (no Quarantine)

[Nemo&Friends]

just curious, what do you think of those “negative aquascape” tanks? the ones with the single “anti-gravity rock” and the entire 300gallon tank covered in crystal white sand?

Sorry I am not Paul, but these are my 2cents
These are very beautiful decorative tanks, more like art pieces, but they are not fish tank. Fish like a lot of hiding places and so do many invert.

 

[Doctorgori]

Sorry I am not Paul, but these are my 2cents
These are very beautiful decorative tanks, more like art pieces, but they are not fish tank. Fish like a lot of hiding places and so do many invert.

Ha …you sound like me … before the Jedi Master ( @PaulB ) chimes in time for a LOOOONG rant

In the 90’s when all we had was ocean rock I think things were different and we actually had a LOT less issues; long story short, I wonder if NSA’s sorta solved some problems but created others….

- I think things started to go array when those long bryopsis “battle threads” along with the “Flatworms ate my SPS” threads started happening around 2008-ish

…couple that with the start of the “SPS revolution” beginning with ORA stylo’s, pink bird nest and those ubiquitous green “Indonesian Acros” and folks started wanting high flow sparkly bright clean tanks (I had one!!)

…Next came the triple whammy: Pacific rock imports basically shut down, LED’s became more common and crazy Aussie corals started to show up…
…it was only a matter of time before “Walt rock” was replaced by dead white and VERY STERILE “Marco” rock

..,Then came the ubiquitous “Boris Vallejo” looking alien landscape tanks, replete with rocks scapes at 1/4 “Earth gravity”, crystal white sand as far as the eye can see, and stocked to the gills with $400 aussie scolys, rare waving torches and LSD looking oompa Loompa zoas…
The “Tank of the Month” craze was on and every newbie had to have one…everyone copied….

Then came the “Name game”…corals became expensive “pokémon cards” and the pencil lead sized $100 acro frag came to pass…

THIS WAS NO PLACE for pineapple sponges, feather dusters and “verti-snails” …lawdy hells no, not in my fairy tale tank, thread after thread of “what is this crawling all over my glass” and “invasion of the bristle worm” threads started showing up….

@PaulB …legend you may be, but your methods have no place for “modern Retail opportunities” in meds, bacterial supplements and magic bottles of “secret” proprietary ingredients ….

 

[areefer01]

I wonder if NSA’s sorta solved some problems but created others….

What problems do you think they solved? Not a challenge but more curious.

Problem(s) solved:
Slow sales of cyanoacylate adhesives (CA/super glue)
Likes, subscriptions, patrons, and other forms of social media love

Problem(s) created:
Stressful fish - lack of spawning area, sleeping quarters, and rest stops
Unrestricted flow
Reduced surface area for micro fauna, bacteria
Potential longer duration, or repeat of, ugly unwanted phase(s)

My list is joking of course. Well problems created maybe not. In my option the whole negative aquascape scene did create issues around unhealthy fish due to stress. Flow issues as in constant with new tanks not having enough rock or coral growth to break flow for resting periods. Less surface area is bad. Ugly or unwanted phases I can't speak but a few socialites (tidal gardens for example) had a NSA display with nothing but issues. The 360 is another one two of which promoted these designs.

Opinions of course. Hope your day is going well.

 

[Doctorgori]

What problems do you think they solved? Not a challenge but more curious.

Problem(s) solved:
Slow sales of cyanoacylate adhesives (CA/super glue)
Likes, subscriptions, patrons, and other forms of social media love

Problem(s) created:
Stressful fish - lack of spawning area, sleeping quarters, and rest stops
Unrestricted flow
Reduced surface area for micro fauna, bacteria
Potential longer duration, or repeat of, ugly unwanted phase(s)

My list is joking of course. Well problems created maybe not. In my option the whole negative aquascape scene did create issues around unhealthy fish due to stress. Flow issues as in constant with new tanks not having enough rock or coral growth to break flow for resting periods. Less surface area is bad. Ugly or unwanted phases I can't speak but a few socialites (tidal gardens for example) had a NSA display with nothing but issues. The 360 is another one two of which promoted these designs.

Opinions of course. Hope your day is going well.

I mean NSA’s (using STERILE rock) do allow you to glue expensive acro frags w/o fear of reef boogie bugs…
I get it (sort of) … I mean let no one define what “reefing” means to you: whether your tank is artwork, a pet home or science project …

I think some of it is TOTM/POTM driven, who knows what the back story of these tanks really is (or how many Microbacter 7 bottles, et it took to get there)

…there isn’t a AKC “dog show” for fish, no contest or judging for habitat duplication, breeding or fish/invert welfare…or bio-diversity …

…its evolved into who can brag about the venerable “Wall to wall SPS show tank” thing and who has grown out that “rare milli” colony and now has to post yet another “my nitrates are zero” thread as IMHO back door brag

 

[Paul B]

@PaulB just curious, what do you think of those “negative aquascape” tanks? the ones with the single “anti-gravity rock” and the entire 300gallon tank covered in crystal white sand?

I think they are totally ridiculous except for the owner who likes the look of that. I like the look of it also but my tank is set up for my fish. If I like the look of something I hang a picture of it on my wall. Fish hate aesthetically looking seascapes as none of them can be found in the sea except in "Finding Nemo" movies.

@PaulB …legend you may be, but your methods have no place for “modern Retail opportunities” in meds, bacterial supplements and magic bottles of “secret” proprietary ingredients ….

Retailers hate me because I don't advertise or condone almost anything. I do like LRS foods and so do my fish though and I do buy some lights and pumps but I am extremely mad they don't make any of them in the US. I invented and patented something and it is built in Florida. Everyone wants me to make it in some IndoChina place but I will never do that as long as I hold the patent and my name is associated with it.

I am not on Einstein's or Gordon Lightfoot's level when it comes to anything, but I know fish. This hobby is so simple that my 11-year-old Grand Daughter can do it with her eyes closed and 15 minutes of instructions, but we make it so complicated.

Fish are not real concerned with parameters, cottage cheese or what political party you like. They just want to think they are in the sea and not in a bare, medication infused tank. They hate medications and PVC fittings because the bar codes scare them.

It drives me absolutely crazy when I see someone medicating fish just because the bottle of copper has a really nice picture of a French Angel on it and it costs $29,95 on Amazon.

When we get an itch we can smear Calamine Lotion on it but we don't drink the stuff. At least I don't. All that medication people use are inside the fish. Try drinking a bottle of Prizapro and see if your insurance covers you.

That and long quarantine is a sure path to disaster and one of those "Getting Out of The Hobby" threads where the owner sells everything for 5 cents on the dollar and gets a job in a garden center trimming Rhododendrons with a nail cutting scissors.

I see diseases now that me and the fish never heard of. Broklenela. What the heck is that. I was born in Brooklyn but didn't have that. I also never seen an intestinal worm and I have been doing this quite a while.

Flukes! They disappear on their own on a healthy, happy fish and I have never tried to eradicate them.

"We" are giving the fish these supposed diseases. How come my fish never come in with those things or get it in my tank in 50 years. Do I fill my tank with pickling spices? Vanilla flavored Vodka? Dr. Shouls Foor Powder? I think not.

Fish come to us immune and then we screw it up with all the silly things we do to them that they hate.

Evryone with 30+ year old quarantined and medicated fish raise your hand.....Higher.

OK, I'm done ranting and I think it's time for that second dose of Dr Pharneys old fashioned Snake Oil....I mean Ich cure.

 

[GARRIGA]

That's a cool pic

 

[Paul B]

I know. It reminds me of one of my old girlfriends but she resembled a flounder a little more.

 

[Doctorgori]

@Paul B …
…sorry to bug you but somewhere in the last 150 pages have you been asked about your microscopic Biome or have you had it tested?
…related to that, have you ever used Microbacter 7 or similar OR ever had a bacterial imbalance ? (like ammonia spikes, et)…if so, how did you correct it?
-what are the origins of your original source rock? (again, pardon if this question has already been asked/given)
TIA Paul

 

[Paul B]

I had the water tested by "Microbiometrics" (sp) That was before he had many tests for biodiversity.

It is in my thread someplace and it's on my other computer which I can't get to right now. As for
Microbacter 7, I don't think I ever used it or any other commercial bacteria.

My original bacteria came from garden soil and rocks I took out of a muddy bay here in New York near the East River that flows past Manhattan.

I wouldn't have ammonia spikes or any imbalances because my tank is natural and I don't use additives except some calcium and alk. Those things only happen when people try to "tweet" the chemical balances in their tank and that short circuits the natural process and causes problems.

If I were to start a tank cycle today I would add some kind of dead clam or shrimp and use enough so the water got cloudy and maybe smelled a little. When it clears, add some more. I am not sure what bacteria in a bottle does or if it is any good because I have no use for it. Maybe it's the best thing since peanut butter, I don't know.

But I always feel that natural is better than what comes in a bottle.

 

[Doctorgori]

Thanks Paul, folks taking thier time to come in and answer repetitive questions is never lost me…

 

[Paul B]

I found the Microbiome report but I can't figure out how to post it. It's a PDF file and I can't copy it for some reason.

 

[Paul B]

 

[Nemo&Friends]

Was able to open the PDF. If I understood correctly, your tank is different from the typical aquarium reef, but it is free from all harmful pathogene. To me it means that though you never quarantine, and do not use all sort of chemical your tank is in good shape.
The other aquarium are mostly free of pathogene, but arrived there using a harder road. That is just my opinion and understanding of the number.

 

[Paul B]

Most of that report went over my bald head.

 

[Snoopdog]

Thanks for sharing that report @Paul B

 

[JumboShrimp]

PAUL B-- I see you're from Long Island. No wonder I have enjoyed your thread so much-- a lot of straight talk, born out of years of practical wisdom.

These were my favorite PAUL B lines from 8-5-23. Call it a Top 5 List:

(1) "If I like the look of something I hang a picture of it on my wall. Fish hate aesthetically looking seascapes as none of them can be found in the sea except in 'Finding Nemo' movies."

(2) "This hobby is so simple that my 11-year-old Grand Daughter can do it with her eyes closed and 15 minutes of instructions, but we make it so complicated."

(3) "Fish are not real concerned with parameters, cottage cheese or what political party you like. They just want to think they are in the sea and not in a bare, medication infused tank. They hate medications and PVC fittings because the bar codes scare them."

(4) "I see diseases now that me and the fish never heard of. Broklenela. What the heck is that. I was born in Brooklyn but didn't have that."

(5) "Fish come to us immune and then we screw it up with all the silly things we do to them that they hate."

 

[Mattiejay6]

Most of that report went over my bald head.

thats the issue I have with it.. dont really understand the report generated at all when I did it.. and he eventually comments on it a few weeks later lol

 

[Paul B]

He commented on mine also which was good as he explained it much better than I can comprehend as I am an electrician and not a tactician, or make up artist.

I have to go and "exfoliate" now.

 

[Paul B]

I just read in this month "Discover" magazine an article about to much copper in a person's blood. It causes a rare disease called "Wilsons disease". I never heard of it until today and have absolutely no idea if copper has the same effect on fish. But in Humans, it adversely affects our brain and causes us to have weird symptoms akin to a drug user.

The one person in the article stopped shaving or washing and his girlfriend broke up with him because of his nasty attitude.
Besides his attitude and appearance, it affects your muscles.

One symptom in "Humans" is a ring around the iris in your eyes. As I said. I have no idea how it affects fish but it's interesting.

 

[Gumbies R Us]

I just read in this month "Discover" magazine an article about to much copper in a person's blood. It causes a rare disease called "Wilsons disease". I never heard of it until today and have absolutely no idea if copper has the same effect on fish. But in Humans, it adversely affects our brain and causes us to have weird symptoms akin to a drug user.

The one person in the article stopped shaving or washing and his girlfriend broke up with him because of his nasty attitude.
Besides his attitude and appearance, it affects your muscles.

One symptom in "Humans" is a ring around the iris in your eyes. As I said. I have no idea how it affects fish but it's interesting.

Interesting, never head of "wilson's disease" before. I'll have to ask my wife later if she has heard of it or even seen it before when she used to work in an er haha