The real Black Box light study

[dantimdad]

I so wish I still had my big DIY COB light. I sold it. I literally took a picture through a welding mask. LOL!

It was 20 x 10 watt RB around a 50 watt CW on an old Xerox copier heat sink.

I used it for two days over a custom 30" deep tank and was worried it was going to bleach everything. So I sold it to someone who had a 36x36x36 tank :D

I need to find those pics.

 

[RobZilla04]

Just catching up as I am late to this game. First off, enough thanks simply cannot be bestowed upon you for taking up so much personal time and money for this testing endeavor! Kudos to you.

Couple of questions:

Is the 24x24 test cube set up with salt or fresh water? I may have missed this as I read 29 thread pages quickly.

I noticed the Kessil 360X test had the color set to just below what appears to be 50% color, yet other lights which have mixed color & intensity adjustments, those were tested at 100% (color and intensity). Am I correct or did I mis-read something?

Definitely following along.

 

[Lingwendil]

I so wish I still had my big DIY COB light. I sold it. I literally took a picture through a welding mask. LOL!

It was 20 x 10 watt RB around a 50 watt CW on an old Xerox copier heat sink.

I used it for two days over a custom 30" deep tank and was worried it was going to bleach everything. So I sold it to someone who had a 36x36x36 tank :D

I need to find those pics.

1x Citizen CLU028 4000k, 97 CRI neutral white (https://www.digikey.com/short/qt0pp1)
1x Luxeon K16 royal blue (equivalent to 4x luxeon M, or 16x Luxeon ES!) (find these on fleaBay, and AliExpress, usually run from $4-6 each, common pricing is 5 for $20 shipped)
4x Luxeon Rebel ES true cool blue (470-480nm)
2x Luxeon Rebel ES cyan (one each from rapidLED, one from Steve's, not that it makes much difference)
2x SemiLEDs Hyper violet 3.0 (U70 bin, 415-425nm)
1x Luxeon Rebel lime

Royal blue- 61.6w (700mA, 44v, x2 strings)
White- 22.8w (300mA, 38v, x2 strings)
Blue- 18.3w (700mA, 13.08v, x2 strings)
Cyan- 8.1w (700mA, 11.6v)
Violet- 5.2w (700mA, 14.8v)
Lime- 3.78w (700mA, 5.4v)

Luxeon K16, Citizen CLU028, next to a Luxeon Lime on a standard star for comparison (ignore the funky mounting on the white square, that was just for temporary testing) -



Full loadout on a 20" RapidLED heatsink-




Those K16 Royal Blues are no joke ;Wideyed

I was going for a "full spectrum" build that would be adjustable for as much as possible. Project stalled when we moved and never set up the larger tank. It's far too powerful for a 20 long with LPS, and the clusters aren't spaced well for it (it was intended to go over a 40 Breeder or similar)

Maybe I'll finish the drivers and controller wiring and have it ready to go for when the time comes, just need a big enough 48 volt power supply, I have all the drivers already. It would be interesting to see how it compared to commercial offerings in the same power range :)

 

[RobZilla04]

The Kessil baseline is done.
These numbers represent the Kessil par numbers from 17 different points at a depth of 23.5 inches with intensity at 100% and color as seen in the pic below:

Using these settings we came out with the following par numbers @23.5 and light at 8in above water:

The spectrum can be seen from each of the 17 placements here:


*****ATTENTION*****
Noopsysche wanted a study on their light compared to these manufacturers Hydra 26hd,Kessil a360x, and Radion xr15w g4 pro.
We will compare these lights with each other and post the results, then use those numbers as a baseline for our main black box study.
Consider this a test within a test then we will get to the main study.

Okay was a big work day today and got 2 lights done- Mars Aqua and the 70w ASMl-02 from Aquarium System Solution
The Mars aqua shows why it needs some type of diffuser

This little ASML-02 pendant really shocked me-

To reference my post above, here you can see both light fixtures have individual adjustments for color & intensity. Just curious if they were indeed tested fairly with both knobs turned all the way up, or both in relative position as shown in the 360X test....

 

[Manose]

Just catching up as I am late to this game. First off, enough thanks simply cannot be bestowed upon you for taking up so much personal time and money for this testing endeavor! Kudos to you.

Couple of questions:

Is the 24x24 test cube set up with salt or fresh water?

I noticed the Kessil 360X test had the color set to just below what appears to be 50% color, yet other lights which have mixed color adjustments those were tested at 100% (color and intensity). Am I correct or did I mis-read something?

Definitely following along.

The cube has saltwater @ 1.025 and I set the 360x to what was pleasing to the eye as it uses Kessil logic in order to make the correct spectrum. In order to really adjust the spectrum ideally a spectralx controller would be needed.

 

[Manose]

To reference my post above, here you can see both light fixtures have individual adjustments for color & intensity. Just curious if they were indeed tested fairly with both knobs turned all the way up, or both in relative position as shown in the 360X test....

The ASM light has a different operation for the color nob as it is either all blue or all white and blue since it doesn't have any red or green led

 

[RobZilla04]

The cube has saltwater @ 1.025 and I set the 360x to what was pleasing to the eye as it uses Kessil logic in order to make the correct spectrum. In order to really adjust the spectrum ideally a spectralx controller would be needed.

The ASM light has a different operation for the color nob as it is either all blue or all white and blue since it doesn't have any red or green led

That presents the new "fairness" concern... Did you test the ASM with full blue & white and the 360X with a "pleasing to the eye" spectrum? If so, wouldn't it be accurate to say you left quite a bit of light/PAR on the table by restricting a light's color output? Or does the 50% color knob on the 360X represent full blue and full white?

EDIT: It would appear your A360X results are in line with the BRS Investigates numbers. Underwhelming indeed!

Keep up the great work.

 

[Manose]

That presents the new "fairness" concern... Did you test the ASM with full blue & white and the 360X with a "pleasing to the eye" spectrum? If so, wouldn't it be accurate to say you left quite a bit of light/PAR on the table by restricting a light's color output? Or does the 50% color knob on the 360X represent full blue and full white?

What I will do is order a spectralx controller today and retest as to make sure we have not made a mistake. As for "fairness" I have done everything to make sure things are equal given the equipment I had.

 

[RobZilla04]

What I will do is order a spectralx controller today and retest as to make sure we have not made a mistake. As for "fairness" I have done everything to make sure things are equal given the equipment I had.

Unless others want to chime in, I don't believe that will be necessary. More interesting will be the results from the black box fixtures which I know so many are anxiously awaiting. The brand names ones have plenty of data out there to be reviewed.

 

[Kampo]

1x Citizen CLU028 4000k, 97 CRI neutral white (https://www.digikey.com/short/qt0pp1)
1x Luxeon K16 royal blue (equivalent to 4x luxeon M, or 16x Luxeon ES!) (find these on fleaBay, and AliExpress, usually run from $4-6 each, common pricing is 5 for $20 shipped)
4x Luxeon Rebel ES true cool blue (470-480nm)
2x Luxeon Rebel ES cyan (one each from rapidLED, one from Steve's, not that it makes much difference)
2x SemiLEDs Hyper violet 3.0 (U70 bin, 415-425nm)
1x Luxeon Rebel lime

Royal blue- 61.6w (700mA, 44v, x2 strings)
White- 22.8w (300mA, 38v, x2 strings)
Blue- 18.3w (700mA, 13.08v, x2 strings)
Cyan- 8.1w (700mA, 11.6v)
Violet- 5.2w (700mA, 14.8v)
Lime- 3.78w (700mA, 5.4v)

Luxeon K16, Citizen CLU028, next to a Luxeon Lime on a standard star for comparison (ignore the funky mounting on the white square, that was just for temporary testing) -



Full loadout on a 20" RapidLED heatsink-




Those K16 Royal Blues are no joke ;Wideyed

I was going for a "full spectrum" build that would be adjustable for as much as possible. Project stalled when we moved and never set up the larger tank. It's far too powerful for a 20 long with LPS, and the clusters aren't spaced well for it (it was intended to go over a 40 Breeder or similar)

Maybe I'll finish the drivers and controller wiring and have it ready to go for when the time comes, just need a big enough 48 volt power supply, I have all the drivers already. It would be interesting to see how it compared to commercial offerings in the same power range :)

love those k16s, using it as actinic supliment on my light over my 30x30 cube. planning on doing a simple cluster for a frag tank using them.

basically just a k16 with a Luxeon C sunplus White, Luxeon C sunplus mint and some chinese violets. will run the k16 at 500ma.

 

[ReeferReefer]

I haven't tried to sell any of these test lights yet. I am going to have to sell some soon as to have money for more products to test.


Very surprised at what these lights can do.


They sure do :)


You can buy them here even tho it is business to business as they will sell to you directly:
https://www.alibaba.com/product-det....galleryofferlist.normalList.2.2f6f6925cXJRT7
To answer your question yes we will do a mod and test again. I look forward to it.


Yes but shipping is not cheap around 65-75$ for a couple of lights. Just remember this when ordering any thing from China.


That is how I am looking at it. The K7 to me is the big 3 killer and this little pendent is perfect for those nano tanks that want big bang on a small tank(even tho it will work on other size tanks)

Guy's what I really need to do is sell some of the doubles of these lights off so we can get more. I bought 2 of everything when I began this study for the redundancy in case something failed.
Four lights we need to test:

Ledzeal lights-Zeus and Alpah120 https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...galleryofferlist.normalList.94.2f6f6925cXJRT7
http://www.ledzeal.com/productlist1-1-.html

The bigger ASML-03 from Aquarium Solution -https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ASML-03-AS-Satellite-Series-LED_60677539847.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.normalList.300.2f6f6925cXJRT7

The smaller evergrow - https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...alleryofferlist.normalList.192.2f6f6925cXJRT7

The Lumini Pixie 150 I have 2 of these so no need in having to buy them.

Seems like 2 or 3 of the pendents would work great on a 4 foot tank.

 

[That Crusso Kid]

looks like they sell it in 3 sizes

http://www.asaquarium.com/index.php/article/index/id/18/cid/3

spectrum looks pretty solid and aimed at the crowd that likes heavy blue compared to a lot of chinese stuff thats too white

Price point on the ASML-03 is about $300. Not a bad price point at a roughly 40"x 40" coverage area. There is the shipping cost concern too as @Manose mentioned previously.

 

[Manose]

Price point on the ASML-03 is about $300. Not a bad price point at a roughly 40"x 40" coverage area. There is the shipping cost concern too as @Manose mentioned previously.

I am asking if they will send us a ASML-o3 for testing. I would like to see how much area the light can handle.

 

[Mouse84]

Really good information in this thread .

 

[Kampo]

I am asking if they will send us a ASML-o3 for testing. I would like to see how much area the light can handle.

you really should start a fundme page or some sort of donation fund for this project. I feel a lot of us would toss in 10 or 20 for the good info. this is something the hobby needs. so much expensive stuff out there. but I feel there is a need to show a cheaper way for people to get into things more comfortably.

 

[That Crusso Kid]

you really should start a fundme page or some sort of donation fund for this project. I feel a lot of us would toss in 10 or 20 for the good info. this is something the hobby needs. so much expensive stuff out there. but I feel there is a need to show a cheaper way for people to get into things more comfortably.

This is a sound idea. I can imagine different scenarios in which some people might take issue with it. Frankly, I think that would be their problem. One thing I have been trying to do is post links to this study in other forums and threads when appropriate in order to get more exposure to this study.

 

[Manose]

Just talked with Aquarium Systems solution tonight and they said we would get a 30% discount from wholesale 290$ to 203$ for us to run a test on the ASML-03. I am going to place the order cause I really think we need to get some numbers from this light.

 

[Manose]

you really should start a fundme page or some sort of donation fund for this project. I feel a lot of us would toss in 10 or 20 for the good info. this is something the hobby needs. so much expensive stuff out there. but I feel there is a need to show a cheaper way for people to get into things more comfortably.

I am not sure how to go about that really, and I am terrified to take money for anything as I don't want the study to owe anyone. I really want to expose as many lights as we can by selling studied lights and then buying new lights to test.

 

[bluewill]

great job at these tests
was i correct in reading that you were looking to sell some of the lights you had already tested ?

 

[That Crusso Kid]

I am not sure how to go about that really, and I am terrified to take money for anything as I don't want the study to owe anyone. I really want to expose as many lights as we can by selling studied lights and then buying new lights to test.

I hear you about the "owing" anything to anyone. However, the beauty of a GoFundMe campaign is that whatever monies are given are considered a gift. Although there might some in the camp of "I want to see a balance sheet so I know how my donation is being used." Regardless of if you decide to take gifts, or not, I support and applaud the outstanding time, work and dedication you are giving to this project! It is apparent many others feel the same way.