The truth about FATS

[lion king]

I remember one the first things I learned about fish when I started this hobby; was the differences in carnivores, omnivores, and herbivores. Lions, eels, anglers, etc. are carnivores, among many other species. Carnivores need a dominant protein and fat diet with minimal carbs. Frankly I'm a bit shocked when I read post from very experienced members recommended a low fat, high carb diet to carnivores; that is like making your cat a vegan. Carbs turn into sugar, sugar inhibits the liver from processing fats, this is likely the #1 cause of fatty liver disease in captive carnivores. Another common cause would be too much of the wrong fats; most of the silverside brands use fish species like smelt, minnows, and anchovies. SFB brand is currently the brand I recommend, they do use a saltwater true silverside, which does contain the proper fats. I've posted an article a few times outlining the fish species each brand uses, you'll have to look for it or research the brand you are using on your own. While I recommend including a high quality food like LRS, they do use a low fat fish and other low fat ingredients. When you sacrifice fats, by default you increase carbs. I really can't over state how important it is to include a fatty fish in the diet of your predators. Some will wonder why not other predators like triggers, well, let's see. Hobbyists think they've done such a fantastic job when they've had a trigger for 10 years, well these fish live in excess of 20 to even 30 years in the wild. While they may not be as susceptible to fatty liver disease as lions and eels, I would say, still access your diet to other predators as well. One of the most common dead diet I see in predators is a combination of shrimp, the wrong silversides, and krill. This diet is moderate protein, low fat and wrong fat, high carbs, and high in thiaminese(look it up).

 

[KrisReef]

Would saltwater mollys work properly in the long term?

 

[lion king]

Would saltwater mollys work properly in the long term?

They don't have to be saltwater, and unless you are raising them yourself, is not recommended. Any saltwater fish can be a vehicle for disease. The molly is a brackish fish that is related to the same benthic species many predators live on in the wild. I've used mollies in my predators diet for 20 years and all my fish live close to their wild age, vibrant and healthy. I believe the molly has a compatible protein and fat profile, more so than some of the saltwater fish people feed them.

 

[SteveMM62Reef]

Glad you Mentioned SFB Silversides, I get slammed by fellow hobbyists for feeding them to Anemones. Grinding them in a Food Processor, and Freezing them into tiny cubes, to feed Fish and Corals, sparingly.

 

[Alpha_The_Wolf]

One of the most common dead diet I see in predators is a combination of shrimp, the wrong silversides, and krill. This diet is moderate protein, low fat and wrong fat, high carbs, and high in thiaminese(look it up).

I recall your post about "thiaminese" and the long term effects. Good write up.

I see you also mentioned the "wrong" silversides. I've been sourcing mine fresh from my local fish market/monger. I'll have to ask for some details about what exactly they're selling as I understand "silversides" is more of an umbrella.

What am I looking for?

I feed my eels a variety including : cherry stone clam meat, squid, silversides. octopus, calamari, and shrimp (shell on).
(no one was too keen on the salmon, but my wallet aint complainin')

 

[lion king]

I recall your post about "thiaminese" and the long term effects. Good write up.

I see you also mentioned the "wrong" silversides. I've been sourcing mine fresh from my local fish market/monger. I'll have to ask for some details about what exactly they're selling as I understand "silversides" is more of an umbrella.

What am I looking for?

I feed my eels a variety including : cherry stone clam meat, squid, silversides. octopus, calamari, and shrimp (shell on).
(no one was too keen on the salmon, but my wallet aint complainin')

It is important to get them good fats, this may be an important part of the reason so many morays don't even live 2 years in captivity. Because of them eating less regularly and needing the time for fasting, the nutritional value of their meals are even more important. My tessa seems to only want to eat salmon, if he refuses what I'm offering, I just don't feed him and offer it again the next day. Sometimes he all of sudden decides he's hungry enough to eat what I am offering. They may refuse something today and accept tommorrow the same they may start to refuse something that they use to previously eat. As far as the wallet goes, they really won't eat that much, it only has to included in their diet, maybe only offering it every 3rd or 4th offering. All things considered I have salmon to be the best all around for getting the needed necessary fats. It's high in overall good fats and especially high in omega 3, it is readily available. In relationship to other fatty fish, not that expensive, every other fatty fish that would fit the bill is less nutritious and more expensive. Mackerel is higher on the list of fatty fish, but I don't have it available in my area, if you do and it's less expensive than salmon, then you could give it a try. Way back when I used to include tuna, not any more, take a look at the price of tuna today.

About the silversides, if your fish monger knows the species that would be great, if not; just ask him salt water or fresh water. If it's a fresh water fish it will likely be smelt and high in thiaminese as well as a higher value of omega 6 vs omega 3, you want it the other way around.

Just remember this you can not be a purist, an absolutist; you have to balance what is in your budget, what is available, and what your fish will eat. Just try and limit thiaminese, no matter what you do you will never eliminate it 100%. If you have mussels available and they will eat them, mussels are a great source of vitamin B1, which will negate the effects of thiaminese.

 

[Alpha_The_Wolf]

It is important to get them good fats, this may be an important part of the reason so many morays don't even live 2 years in captivity. Because of them eating less regularly and needing the time for fasting, the nutritional value of their meals are even more important. My tessa seems to only want to eat salmon, if he refuses what I'm offering, I just don't feed him and offer it again the next day. Sometimes he all of sudden decides he's hungry enough to eat what I am offering. They may refuse something today and accept tommorrow the same they may start to refuse something that they use to previously eat. As far as the wallet goes, they really won't eat that much, it only has to included in their diet, maybe only offering it every 3rd or 4th offering. All things considered I have salmon to be the best all around for getting the needed necessary fats. It's high in overall good fats and especially high in omega 3, it is readily available. In relationship to other fatty fish, not that expensive, every other fatty fish that would fit the bill is less nutritious and more expensive. Mackerel is higher on the list of fatty fish, but I don't have it available in my area, if you do and it's less expensive than salmon, then you could give it a try. Way back when I used to include tuna, not any more, take a look at the price of tuna today.

About the silversides, if your fish monger knows the species that would be great, if not; just ask him salt water or fresh water. If it's a fresh water fish it will likely be smelt and high in thiaminese as well as a higher value of omega 6 vs omega 3, you want it the other way around.

Just remember this you can not be a purist, an absolutist; you have to balance what is in your budget, what is available, and what your fish will eat. Just try and limit thiaminese, no matter what you do you will never eliminate it 100%. If you have mussels available and they will eat them, mussels are a great source of vitamin B1, which will negate the effects of thiaminese.

Lemme first start by saying thank you. Real recognize real! There's not alot accessible information about the deeper level of nutrition for these amazing creatures. With life expectancies of 3 decades it is indeed a shame to hear about them perishing after a mere 2 years.

My latest tank is coming up on a 2 year anniversary and my day 1 eels are still going strong but once again, thank you provide great info along with source.


I took a page out of your book while re-upping on food. I decided to take out the silversides entirely. Replaced it with Spanish mackerel which I got for $6.99 a lb versus smeltfish for $3.99. Had it chopped into steaks, grabbed 4 lbs worth and got the usual 2lbs of shrimp, 3lbs of octopus , 24 cherry stone clams (only $.30 a pop as opposed to 6.99 a lb for mussels), and 3lbs of squid.

Salmon was $11.99 a pound but considering mackerel had a higher content I was pleased.
Once home, it was time to see if the boys liked it. I cut the steaks into smaller chunks and everyone was extremely pleased.

Your knowledge is much appreciated

 

[blaxsun]

"Making your cat a vegan", lol. Good one. :face-with-tears-of-joy:

 

[lion king]

Lemme first start by saying thank you. Real recognize real! There's not alot accessible information about the deeper level of nutrition for these amazing creatures. With life expectancies of 3 decades it is indeed a shame to hear about them perishing after a mere 2 years.

My latest tank is coming up on a 2 year anniversary and my day 1 eels are still going strong but once again, thank you provide great info along with source.


I took a page out of your book while re-upping on food. I decided to take out the silversides entirely. Replaced it with Spanish mackerel which I got for $6.99 a lb versus smeltfish for $3.99. Had it chopped into steaks, grabbed 4 lbs worth and got the usual 2lbs of shrimp, 3lbs of octopus , 24 cherry stone clams (only $.30 a pop as opposed to 6.99 a lb for mussels), and 3lbs of squid.

Salmon was $11.99 a pound but considering mackerel had a higher content I was pleased.
Once home, it was time to see if the boys liked it. I cut the steaks into smaller chunks and everyone was extremely pleased.

Your knowledge is much appreciated

I do still recommend salmon as it is the king of omega 3, and I am glad you are including a fatty fish and they are eating it. You are definitely taking very good care of your eels. You likely already know this, just make sure they get a fasting period between meals.

 

[Alpha_The_Wolf]

I do still recommend salmon as it is the king of omega 3, and I am glad you are including a fatty fish and they are eating it. You are definitely taking very good care of your eels. You likely already know this, just make sure they get a fasting period between meals.

Why salmon over mackerel? I recall you mentioning the latter as superior.

Do you have a top 3? Perhaps nutrional values to compare?I can mix it up!

 

[lion king]

Why salmon over mackerel? I recall you mentioning the latter as superior.

Do you have a top 3? Perhaps nutrional values to compare?I can mix it up!

Because of the omega 3, fats are multi dimensional but in simple terms we balance omega 3 to omega 6. Many sources will have more omega 6, optimum you would want more omega 3, or at least equal. Too much omega 6 can cause issues such as inflammation. Salmon has alot more omega 3 than mackerel, and would be good to include. Mackerel is a good choice for fats and certainly is a good addition all around, and does contain a good source of omega 3, just not as much as salmon. Most hobbyist do not include a fatty fish at all, and I believe this is a the great detriment. Your diet is one of the best I've seen, most hobbyist really do not pay attention at all. The diet you are offering is really top notch, the only thing I would suggest, maybe to switch it up or if some get bored, is to include salmon and mussels. I recommend mussels because of the B1, Octopus also has a good amount of B1. B1 defiencency is want thiaminese causes. While shrimp will contain a good amount of thiaminese, whole shrimp is very important for the shells and such. Most hobbyist use cleaned frozen shrimp. Bought fresh shrimp will contain enough b1 to balance out the thiaminese as long as it is not the dominant part of the diet. Frozen food will retain optimum nutrition for only so long.

Mackeral contains a higher amount of overall fat but salmon contains a higher amount of omega 3. Omega 3 also helps controlling the "bad fats". I put bad fats in parenthesis because they are "bad" when they are in excess, otherwise they are not. Humans could do alot for themselves to study the "truth about fats" for their own health. What the mainstream teaches about fats is all wrong.

 

[Alpha_The_Wolf]

Because of the omega 3, fats are multi dimensional but in simple terms we balance omega 3 to omega 6. Many sources will have more omega 6, optimum you would want more omega 3, or at least equal. Too much omega 6 can cause issues such as inflammation. Salmon has alot more omega 3 than mackerel, and would be good to include. Mackerel is a good choice for fats and certainly is a good addition all around, and does contain a good source of omega 3, just not as much as salmon. Most hobbyist do not include a fatty fish at all, and I believe this is a the great detriment. Your diet is one of the best I've seen, most hobbyist really do not pay attention at all. The diet you are offering is really top notch, the only thing I would suggest, maybe to switch it up or if some get bored, is to include salmon and mussels. I recommend mussels because of the B1, Octopus also has a good amount of B1. B1 defiencency is want thiaminese causes. While shrimp will contain a good amount of thiaminese, whole shrimp is very important for the shells and such. Most hobbyist use cleaned frozen shrimp. Bought fresh shrimp will contain enough b1 to balance out the thiaminese as long as it is not the dominant part of the diet. Frozen food will retain optimum nutrition for only so long.

Mackeral contains a higher amount of overall fat but salmon contains a higher amount of omega 3. Omega 3 also helps controlling the "bad fats". I put bad fats in parenthesis because they are "bad" when they are in excess, otherwise they are not. Humans could do alot for themselves to study the "truth about fats" for their own health. What the mainstream teaches about fats is all wrong.

Phenomenal!

I'll definitely grab abit of salmon on my next re-up. I think I'll keep the mackerel in rotation as well, 2lbs of each sounds good.

If I go for mussels, I'd likely drop the cherry stone clams. Mainly for redundancy. I nixed calamari when i realized i was getting a much better deal on larger squid
I didn't get a great reaction the first time I offered mussels but you how they can be. The food budget just ++'d yall.

I appreciate the compliment aswell. I lurked for quite abit here and I've always appreciated your detailed post.

Considering how long lived, intelligent, and unique eels are coupled with the fact I'm taking them out of the oceans means I have no choice but to give them the best!

 

[lion king]

You are offering high value food, they will tell you what they need. Eels will only eat for survival sake for so long, they will eventually refuse food that has no value to them. That's why you hear so many stories of eels just stop eating, the food being offered to them is of no value. I hear people say some fish will eat themselves to death, actually humans will eat themselves to death. They have no natural instinct to stop eating what has no value to them. I treat my pets as myself.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

You are offering high value food, they will tell you what they need. Eels will only eat for survival sake for so long, they will eventually refuse food that has no value to them. That's why you hear so many stories of eels just stop eating, the food being offered to them is of no value. I hear people say some fish will eat themselves to death, actually humans will eat themselves to death. They have no natural instinct to stop eating what has no value to them. I treat my pets as myself.

Somewhat off topic here (sorry OP), but this got me wondering: if an eel had 24/7 access to an endless supply of food, would it eat too much/too frequently and be less healthy, or would it regulate its food intake and be perfectly healthy?

 

[lion king]

Somewhat off topic here (sorry OP), but this got me wondering: if an eel had 24/7 access to an endless supply of food, would it eat too much/too frequently and be less healthy, or would it regulate its food intake and be perfectly healthy?

They would likely eat more frequently and develop issues associated with this, like fatty liver disease and other digestive issues. They would also likely eat too much and regurgitate causing other digestive issues. In the wild nature takes care of this, there is no endless buffet in the wild, and they have to work for their food. Just a thought experiment; why are 70% of Americans overweight and 54% with chronic diseases. I'm not sure an eel has a consciousness equipped to manage that, but neither do American humans. Maybe the same percentage of eels would regulate themselves, but most would not.

 

[CLR2]

Tanks for all the info that you provide. I have been trying my best to give my fish the best nutrition. I currently have a skeletor eel that’s over 11years old. On another thread i asked about some fish I was able to catch and feed my fish. Ultimately you said they were not the best so I just feed them once a week. This weekend I was able to find a spot that I can catch grass shrimp. My plan is to get a few hundred next weekend. I can also catch small crabs and silverside. The silversides never make it home alive so I usually just put them on ice after catching them. On another note when you feed live your fish colors will become vivid while they are hunting. It’s amazing to see.

 

[lion king]

Tanks for all the info that you provide. I have been trying my best to give my fish the best nutrition. I currently have a skeletor eel that’s over 11years old. On another thread i asked about some fish I was able to catch and feed my fish. Ultimately you said they were not the best so I just feed them once a week. This weekend I was able to find a spot that I can catch grass shrimp. My plan is to get a few hundred next weekend. I can also catch small crabs and silverside. The silversides never make it home alive so I usually just put them on ice after catching them. On another note when you feed live your fish colors will become vivid while they are hunting. It’s amazing to see.

If your skeletor eel is over 11 years old you are already doing remarkable, so whatever you are doing, keep doing it. What I likely said about catching fish yourself, is to confirm the species of fish you are catching. Skeletors are pebbletooth eels and should love the shrimp and crabs you are able to catch. I would try and identify the fish you are catching as some species may not be the best.

 

[Bohemian Waxwing]

You are offering high value food, they will tell you what they need. Eels will only eat for survival sake for so long, they will eventually refuse food that has no value to them. That's why you hear so many stories of eels just stop eating, the food being offered to them is of no value. I hear people say some fish will eat themselves to death, actually humans will eat themselves to death. They have no natural instinct to stop eating what has no value to them. I treat my pets as myself.

*slowly lowers Doritos bag*

 

[CLR2]

If your skeletor eel is over 11 years old you are already doing remarkable, so whatever you are doing, keep doing it. What I likely said about catching fish yourself, is to confirm the species of fish you are catching. Skeletors are pebbletooth eels and should love the shrimp and crabs you are able to catch. I would try and identify the fish you are catching as some species may not be the best.

After doing a little research a lot of what I was catching turned out to be a type of minnow. I try to stay away from those unless they are very small. I didn’t know much about feeding live until I started reading your post. I would like to thank you again for all the info.

 

[lion king]

After doing a little research a lot of what I was catching turned out to be a type of minnow. I try to stay away from those unless they are very small. I didn’t know much about feeding live until I started reading your post. I would like to thank you again for all the info.

Minnows are not good, they contain a good amount of thiaminese which will bind vit B1 and have a tendency to bind in the gut and could cause bloat.