What makes you say that? Could you educate me on why you think its transitioning? It very well could be,im not an expert, but the retailer I bought her from specified gender, she has a black point by her head and a very short dorsal fin(so short i thought something munched it) From my research the only real difference from the males and females is the black dot. Which in person i visibly see. So it is hard to tell since not much is different between them. I do have a female melanurus wrasse as well which could trigger it in the future, but they were bought roughly around the same time(few days apart), but my ornate has been in the sand pretty much for 4 days straight now and is shy/timid(only comes out for two hours or so at a time, as its getting used to the light schedule.) Nothing like a male at all IMO from what ive read, but as stated above, im willing to be educated or see things from your point of view. The melanurus is the more dominant fish by far though.
The Wrasse Lover's Thread!
- Thread starter Breakin Newz
- Start date
- Tagged users AtulR
What makes you say that? Could you educate me on why you think its transitioning? It very well could be,im not an expert, but the retailer I bought her from specified gender, she has a black point by her head and a very short dorsal fin(so short i thought something munched it) From my research the only real difference from the males and females is the black dot. Which in person i visibly see. So it is hard to tell since not much is different between them. I do have a female melanurus wrasse as well which could trigger it in the future, but they were bought roughly around the same time(few days apart), but my ornate has been in the sand pretty much for 4 days straight now and is shy/timid(only comes out for two hours or so at a time, as its getting used to the light schedule.) Nothing like a male at all IMO from what ive read, but as stated above, im willing to be educated or see things from your point of view. The melanurus is the more dominant fish by far though.
evolved
[email protected]
Excellence Award
Reef Tank 365
Expert Contributor
Article Contributor
Moderator Emeritus
AZ FRAG Member
Hospitality Award
My Tank Thread
It is a tricky species to sex, but the tail pattern on yours is a dead give away as male.
Im pretty sure they have the same tails, but thanks for the response will see what happens, im not shooting it down, especially in the future since i have another female in the tank, could definitely happen.
Pretty much looked exactly like my other female that passed.
Last edited:
evolved
[email protected]
Excellence Award
Reef Tank 365
Expert Contributor
Article Contributor
Moderator Emeritus
AZ FRAG Member
Hospitality Award
My Tank Thread
That graphic isn't a good example, and that deceased fish looks male again to me.Im pretty sure they have the same tails, but thanks for the response will see what happens, im not shooting it down, especially in the future since i have another female in the tank, could definitely happen.
Pretty much looked exactly like my other female that passed.
It can be.
Bob Weigant
Valuable Member
I’ve had both happen. Most of the time it’s a few day buried and a few times they just hung out with the gang and cruise the tank
saltyhog
blowing bubbles somewhere
Im pretty sure they have the same tails, but thanks for the response will see what happens, im not shooting it down, especially in the future since i have another female in the tank, could definitely happen.
Pretty much looked exactly like my other female that passed.
Trust me, if Hunter says it's a male...it's a male. :D He is one of the leading wrasse experts anywhere and a frequent lecturer at MACNA.
evolved
[email protected]
Excellence Award
Reef Tank 365
Expert Contributor
Article Contributor
Moderator Emeritus
AZ FRAG Member
Hospitality Award
My Tank Thread
No debate, no uncertainty here, but for the sake of better explanation:
These are holotype pictures (dead fish), so don't get too hung up on the coloration, but I'll draw attention to the patterns/features of both.
Male M. ornatus:
Female M. ornatus:
First, look at the patterns around the eyes and also on the gill plates (cheeks, if you'd rather). You'll note that the male has nice bold, solid lines, whereas the female has much more of a broken, spotted pattern. Next, look at the pattern on the sides of the body. The male has much more uniform, orderly circles than the female. And lastly, I'll draw your attention to the caudal (tail). Two big things here. First, the male much bigger spots, nicely arranged in a "fan array" style. The female has much smaller, less orderly spots. And then, there's the bold margins with the distinct iridescent edge on the male's caudal v. the female. It's this latter feature that makes both of your specimens male.
Your current fish; note those bold boarders and iridescent edges on the side of the tail:
And you can even sort of see the same on your dead fish. And if there's any uncertainty in the photo, you can just look at the markings on the gill plates as well as the orderly fashion and size of the spots along the sides of the body:
(and hopefully now, you can see why I softly stated that the male/female graphic you showed is essentially wrong. The "male" in that graphic might be a transitional male, but I'd still say both are females)
Now, with all that said, this is still a very tricky species to discern where the line between female ends and sub-male begins.
These are holotype pictures (dead fish), so don't get too hung up on the coloration, but I'll draw attention to the patterns/features of both.
Male M. ornatus:
Female M. ornatus:
First, look at the patterns around the eyes and also on the gill plates (cheeks, if you'd rather). You'll note that the male has nice bold, solid lines, whereas the female has much more of a broken, spotted pattern. Next, look at the pattern on the sides of the body. The male has much more uniform, orderly circles than the female. And lastly, I'll draw your attention to the caudal (tail). Two big things here. First, the male much bigger spots, nicely arranged in a "fan array" style. The female has much smaller, less orderly spots. And then, there's the bold margins with the distinct iridescent edge on the male's caudal v. the female. It's this latter feature that makes both of your specimens male.
Your current fish; note those bold boarders and iridescent edges on the side of the tail:
And you can even sort of see the same on your dead fish. And if there's any uncertainty in the photo, you can just look at the markings on the gill plates as well as the orderly fashion and size of the spots along the sides of the body:
(and hopefully now, you can see why I softly stated that the male/female graphic you showed is essentially wrong. The "male" in that graphic might be a transitional male, but I'd still say both are females)
Now, with all that said, this is still a very tricky species to discern where the line between female ends and sub-male begins.
evolved
[email protected]
Excellence Award
Reef Tank 365
Expert Contributor
Article Contributor
Moderator Emeritus
AZ FRAG Member
Hospitality Award
My Tank Thread
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I'm wrong sometimes too. I try to make it clear when I'm not 100% certain, though. :)
evolved
[email protected]
Excellence Award
Reef Tank 365
Expert Contributor
Article Contributor
Moderator Emeritus
AZ FRAG Member
Hospitality Award
My Tank Thread
Very few. Bali did it by accident, originally. Rising tide has done some work here, as have a few others.
HairyGary
Why do all your fish look like trout?
nice choices!
Jstn
Well-Known Member
No debate, no uncertainty here, but for the sake of better explanation:
These are holotype pictures (dead fish), so don't get too hung up on the coloration, but I'll draw attention to the patterns/features of both.
Male M. ornatus:
Female M. ornatus:
First, look at the patterns around the eyes and also on the gill plates (cheeks, if you'd rather). You'll note that the male has nice bold, solid lines, whereas the female has much more of a broken, spotted pattern. Next, look at the pattern on the sides of the body. The male has much more uniform, orderly circles than the female. And lastly, I'll draw your attention to the caudal (tail). Two big things here. First, the male much bigger spots, nicely arranged in a "fan array" style. The female has much smaller, less orderly spots. And then, there's the bold margins with the distinct iridescent edge on the male's caudal v. the female. It's this latter feature that makes both of your specimens male.
Your current fish; note those bold boarders and iridescent edges on the side of the tail:
And you can even sort of see the same on your dead fish. And if there's any uncertainty in the photo, you can just look at the markings on the gill plates as well as the orderly fashion and size of the spots along the sides of the body:
(and hopefully now, you can see why I softly stated that the male/female graphic you showed is essentially wrong. The "male" in that graphic might be a transitional male, but I'd still say both are females)
Now, with all that said, this is still a very tricky species to discern where the line between female ends and sub-male begins.
Hunter,
Would the same logic apply to Potters Leopards? I can find good visuals of male vs female, where in the other (melagris and bipartisus) have very defined changes.
evolved
[email protected]
Excellence Award
Reef Tank 365
Expert Contributor
Article Contributor
Moderator Emeritus
AZ FRAG Member
Hospitality Award
My Tank Thread
Yes - the lines v. dots on the gill plates is the easiest way to sex geoffroy.
More here:
Let Me ID Your Wrasse!
Was sold to me as a McCosker Flasher but they weren't 100% sure.
www.reef2reef.com
Brew12
Electrical Gru
Wow! That's amazing!9 months into stocking my ”mainly” wrasse tank... just one left to get now to finish my collection (unless I find a Chaoti) my LFS is holding a Jordani for me
Mortie31
Valuable Member
Thankyou.. when I’ve stopped spending my cash on fish I’m going to get a decent camera and learn how to use it!!
saltyhog
blowing bubbles somewhere
Here's Evolved's chart for fairy wrasses.
Cirrhilabrus Complexes: Inferiority Need Not Apply (1st Revision)
Cirrhilabrus, the “Fairy Wrasses”, are one of the most elegant, active, and colorful reef fish. Their appeal in a reef tank is common to many, but not all have a well-rounded understanding of the compatibility amongst them. Enter the notion of “complexes”: groupings of very closely related...
www.reef2reef.com
Similar threads
-
- Sticky
-
- AMS: Article
