Think I Was Wrong…It HAS TO Be Live Rock

[LiverockRocks]

I don’t know how helpful this is, but Southwest’s airfreight (according to KP Aquatics) is about $60-70 for up to 50lbs of live rock, which maybe gives you somewhat of a ballpark idea.

2023 Southwest base rates start at $101 - $126 depending on where you are located.

 

[tautog83]

I'd put some biomedia in a friends tank for 2 months then take it and put in your tank .. . We talk about how live rock adds biodiversity , doing it this way will at least get you SOMETHING. I still agree that live rock is the best way to go but for those that don't want to do it , its a good way to add a little diversity to your dry rock setup . At the very least you know there isn't a bobbit worm or 12 mantis shrimp of 6 gorilla crabs coming out of the $300 rock you bought . Also I'm pretty sure they just throw marco rock in the ocean so as far as it being more porous , im not sure . I could totally be wrong though so don't quote me on that . The last amazing rock was from fiji sadly and all those islands.. tokotoa or whatever it was called used to be amazing and look great!. Are there any updates on those huge vats that marco rocks filled in the one wwc video? I feel like they were going offer a coralline encrusted variation to the lineup that was cured in a more "sterile" environment which was appealing .

 

[Shooter6]

We live in Indiana, so being land locked with nsw collection not being an option. My lfs sells “live rock”, but it’s just the dry man made stuff they put into their large sumps and let colonize with whatever bacteria is in their systems. You don’t get the good/bad hitch hikers or macro algaes and such. No better than buying a box of dry rock and cycling it with dr. tims! The only real benefit to this is that they sell the stuff from their sump at the same price as the dry stuff.

Look up Florida live rock. They ship it over night wrapped in wet newspaper. At least 90% of life makes the trip. It's not cheap but definitely live rock , to the point some people get fish in it.

 

[LilElroyJetson]

No. The hobby started in the US in 1971 and thats when I started it.

You’re a legend!

 

[LilElroyJetson]

2023 Southwest base rates start at $101 - $126 depending on where you are located.

Great to know! Appreciate the info!

 

[NCsalt]

I did half established rock that had been true live rock from someones tank breakdown that had been running 8 years and the other half Carib Liferock.

Almost all the hair algae is on the liferock.

Just my observation.

 

[Paul B]

You’re a legend!

So is Godzilla.

 

[schooncw]

I have heard of people doing it with success. However, I’m sure you will agree it only works for people who are very experienced and know how to do it or those who get lucky. If there was a known and proven procedure that could prevent the algae ugly phase, everyone would do it.

There is NO substitute for the biodiversity and future system stability that live rock offers.

 

[Reefkeepers Archive]

I’ve been under the impression since returning to the hobby that we’ve made strides in knowing how to successfully start a tank with dry rock and have it be just as solid as a live rock based tank with some extra leg work on the front end (i.e. tub cycling the rock to get it seeded, months long rock only in tank cycle before eventually turning the lights on, continuing to cycle before slowly adding coral and eventually fish to allow the dry rock to gain the amount of bacteria live rock would have).

After reading a bunch, it sounds like while it works for SOME people SOMETIMES, it’s not the preferred route. I keep hearing about how much longer the ugly stages are lasting, problems popping up non stop over the first 2-3+ years even with people who took the prudent approach with dry rock. And I’m not talking about problems that are just part of the hobby that the right stocking list and care will quickly get in check for good. I’m talking potentially chronic tank issues and just really slow progress…more headache than is necessary.

My thought process was if I take the safe patient approach with dry rock, I’ll never have the miserable aptasia my first tank had that my filefish couldn’t keep up with, or that bubble algae and Dinos, or the excessive amounts of bristle worms that just generally creep me out. Although, I also wouldn’t get all that cool random biodiversity and random hitchhikers like the sponges, star fish, green star polyp and anemone I was surprised by.

Now I’m becoming more and more convinced that the random unwelcome hitchhikers are much easier to deal with than a tank that never fully stabilizes before it comes down or you need to move. That the benefits of immense biodiversity of live rock from the ocean grossly outweighs any other considerations. After all, I’m always going to be risking hitchhikers with additions of new coral to my tank, new clean up crew, etc.

I think I’m now in the camp of real live rock from the ocean is the only way to go…

I've started with dry rock, tank is 6-7 months old, here's my statement.




Dry rock has its pros and cons, 7 months in and I haven't noticed a hint of aptasia, vermited snails, bristleworms, ect. Much more cost effective at more than half the price of live rock and easy to aquascape with, especially for large tanks. Dosent need to be kept wet so you can scape outside the tank and then add the rock in. Though it does have its downsides. You cannot keep cyanno, diatoms or hair algae out of your tank, those come no matter what, I started with live sand as you need to give a foothold for the microfauna to start getting established. The cycle does take longer, mine took 5 months, and copepods are also nonexistent so you'll need to introduce those. Also I'm pretty sure it's been absorbing the alk I dose, though that's manageable. Overall, do I recommend it? Yes. Is it more work? Yes.

 

[LilElroyJetson]

I've started with dry rock, tank is 6-7 months old, here's my statement.




Dry rock has its pros and cons, 7 months in and I haven't noticed a hint of aptasia, vermited snails, bristleworms, ect. Much more cost effective at more than half the price of live rock and easy to aquascape with, especially for large tanks. Dosent need to be kept wet so you can scape outside the tank and then add the rock in. Though it does have its downsides. You cannot keep cyanno, diatoms or hair algae out of your tank, those come no matter what, I started with live sand as you need to give a foothold for the microfauna to start getting established. The cycle does take longer, mine took 5 months, and copepods are also nonexistent so you'll need to introduce those. Also I'm pretty sure it's been absorbing the alk I dose, though that's manageable. Overall, do I recommend it? Yes. Is it more work? Yes.

Is this your first dry rock tank? The reason I ask is because 7 months is still a young tank. Great to not be having major issues, but my hesitation is that some of those bad issues (not just ones you’ve mentioned) that usually correct for good using live rock, tend to reoccur or persist over time with dry rock due to the relatively low amount of biodiversity. Hard to say whether you’re home free so early, but fingers crossed.

 

[apb03]

Such a difficult topic because on the one hand, dry rock has allowed the hobby to proliferate far more by being so accessible, but on the other hand, it dramatically increases the complexity of stabilizing the biome which causes so many to fail and ultimately exit the hobby.

I only have experience with Dry rock but would strongly consider ocean rock on my next build. I think it comes down to what would you rather deal with, pests or instability?

I feel like experienced reefers would take the pests over dinos and the like while newbies like myself would be intimidated by the pests and feel safer with dry rock despite the stability challenges that require patience.

 

[jda]

I have had enough of the live vs dry debate since retailers started to convice people about pests.

If anybody is worried about pests, then have your rock shipped UPS or FedEx in newspaper. Nearly all of the stuff on the rocks will live if you cure the rock right, but shrimp and crabs nearly always crawl out of the rock and are laying on the bottom. Easy fix.

As for all of the other pests like aiptasia, hair algae, dinos, bryopsis... if you don't have a coral QT, as in full-in coral QT, one frag plug will introduce all of this to your tank.

For folks who think that pods, bristleworms, etc are pests, you might want to reconsider where you get your reefing information. Maybe bristleworms just need a better publicist and might need to sign on to the agency that represents starfish since some starfish can do WAY more damage to a reef tank than bristleworms can.

 

[i cant think]

I’ve been under the impression since returning to the hobby that we’ve made strides in knowing how to successfully start a tank with dry rock and have it be just as solid as a live rock based tank with some extra leg work on the front end (i.e. tub cycling the rock to get it seeded, months long rock only in tank cycle before eventually turning the lights on, continuing to cycle before slowly adding coral and eventually fish to allow the dry rock to gain the amount of bacteria live rock would have).

After reading a bunch, it sounds like while it works for SOME people SOMETIMES, it’s not the preferred route. I keep hearing about how much longer the ugly stages are lasting, problems popping up non stop over the first 2-3+ years even with people who took the prudent approach with dry rock. And I’m not talking about problems that are just part of the hobby that the right stocking list and care will quickly get in check for good. I’m talking potentially chronic tank issues and just really slow progress…more headache than is necessary.

My thought process was if I take the safe patient approach with dry rock, I’ll never have the miserable aptasia my first tank had that my filefish couldn’t keep up with, or that bubble algae and Dinos, or the excessive amounts of bristle worms that just generally creep me out. Although, I also wouldn’t get all that cool random biodiversity and random hitchhikers like the sponges, star fish, green star polyp and anemone I was surprised by.

Now I’m becoming more and more convinced that the random unwelcome hitchhikers are much easier to deal with than a tank that never fully stabilizes before it comes down or you need to move. That the benefits of immense biodiversity of live rock from the ocean grossly outweighs any other considerations. After all, I’m always going to be risking hitchhikers with additions of new coral to my tank, new clean up crew, etc.

I think I’m now in the camp of real live rock from the ocean is the only way to go…

Ive had nothing but issues when starting with dry rock as the nasties start at 6 months+… Live rock however, I generally have the dirties within 2-3 weeks and they’re gone within a month or two.

 

[LilElroyJetson]

I have had enough of the live vs dry debate since retailers started to convice people about pests.

If anybody is worried about pests, then have your rock shipped UPS or FedEx in newspaper. Nearly all of the stuff on the rocks will live if you cure the rock right, but shrimp and crabs nearly always crawl out of the rock and are laying on the bottom. Easy fix.

As for all of the other pests like aiptasia, hair algae, dinos, bryopsis... if you don't have a coral QT, as in full-in coral QT, one frag plug will introduce all of this to your tank.

For folks who think that pods, bristleworms, etc are pests, you might want to reconsider where you get your reefing information. Maybe bristleworms just need a better publicist and might need to sign on to the agency that represents starfish since some starfish can do WAY more damage to a reef tank than bristleworms can.

Great points. For the record, I understand and appreciate the work bristleworms do…they just creep me out lol.

 

[JoJosReef]

Great points. For the record, I understand and appreciate the work bristleworms do…they just creep me out lol.

Bristleworms are also relatively easy to manage. Stockings and a bit of shrimp. Rampant GHA, dinos and (presumably) cyano are not easy to manage. Even gorilla crabs are easier to manage than that! I'll take a Eunice worm (not bobbits, those are rare) over scrubbing GHA off of rocks any day.

Vermetid snails, spirorbids and such are hard to avoid if you are adding coral to your tank. So that argument about live rock is null and void. Hats off to the coral QT'ers.

Ocean rocks changed the way I enjoy the hobby and is probably the reason I'm still here.

 

[Reefkeepers Archive]

Is this your first dry rock tank? The reason I ask is because 7 months is still a young tank. Great to not be having major issues, but my hesitation is that some of those bad issues (not just ones you’ve mentioned) that usually correct for good using live rock, tend to reoccur or persist over time with dry rock due to the relatively low amount of biodiversity. Hard to say whether you’re home free so early, but fingers crossed.

Yea, still is a young tank, just started adding coral last month. It is my first dry rock tank and low biodiversity is a concern of mine, I only get wild caught colonies so that helps add some diversity with micro hitchhikers on the coral, though I do still dip them (and I'm glad I did, caught a large bristleworm and astrena star come off my zoa). Algaebarn galaxypods helped with the microfauna population, though it still isn't as biodiverse as other tanks, and it does take much longer for algae to grow in, but despite the sterile starting point, I still managed to get cyanno

 

[LilElroyJetson]

Bristleworms are also relatively easy to manage. Stockings and a bit of shrimp. Rampant GHA, dinos and (presumably) cyano are not easy to manage. Even gorilla crabs are easier to manage than that! I'll take a Eunice worm (not bobbits, those are rare) over scrubbing GHA off of rocks any day.

Vermetid snails, spirorbids and such are hard to avoid if you are adding coral to your tank. So that argument about live rock is null and void. Hats off to the coral QT'ers.

Ocean rocks changed the way I enjoy the hobby and is probably the reason I'm still here.

Can you elaborate on managing bristleworms with stockings and shrimp please?

 

[JoJosReef]

Can you elaborate on managing bristleworms with stockings and shrimp please?

short pantyhose, place piece of shrimp inside, let it sit in the tank overnight, remove pantyhose in the AM. Bristleworms can get their bristles caught in the pantyhose and then easy to remove. Can't find the thread right now, but one guy had a complete infestation and was pulling out handfuls of bristleworms on stockings every night. Worth a shot.

Note: this method does not work on Eunice worms, as far as I can tell.

 

[JoJosReef]

Can you elaborate on managing bristleworms with stockings and shrimp please?

better explanation:

bristle worm trap

hello community, Well, the title says it all. can anyone give me some advice on a bristle worm trap? found a few on amazon but not much. And recommend one? Thanks...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Gundy]

There is NO substitute for the biodiversity and future system stability that live rock offers.

I agree 100%. if one starts out a tank with quality live rock, how many months ahead are they compared to dry rock? Also, ( if tank is stocked really well with fish and some corals), how long would It take this live rock tank to be considered mature? All comments welcome.