Thinking about Hyposalinity in my new 400 Gallon display

[Ashish Patel]

This is unfortunate as I thought I did a good job QT my tangs and buying QT fish. less than 3 weeks ago i added 9 tangs (achilles, powder, 2 purples, 3 yellows, orange shoulder, hippo, 2 clownfish), Few days ago the achilles showed spots as did the hippo. Powder and one yellow has 1 or 2 spots.. Not possible for me to catch all the fish and house them somewhere for 76 days and let the tank run fallow. I dont have much microfauna on my rock, i have old LR in sump which i may QT in a separate tank, No snails, inverts or corals. I feel this hyposalinity is the easiest and practical thing considering I know my fish just got out of copper.

What should I watch out for dropping salinity? what happens to my biological filter and why do i have to monitor ammonia? Can't i just use Kalk in my ATO to bring up PH or dose as needed. Is this a good idea for my system?

 

[Ashish Patel]

Really bumped out about this, Ich management and being a fish DR is not something that interests me so i thought i would QT as i did for 4 months to get it right - I obviously failed and let my fish down. I do have a order for snails and urchin in transit so luckily now i can just put them in a seperate QT tank and add them to the display after 76 days. sadly i have 5 anthias coming too so they will have to go through QT in copper. Stinks to have all these problems but i dont want ich management with 3 acanthuride tangs, Zebrasomas are fine for ich management aslong as the powders and achilles arent in the tank - from my experience.

 

[Ashish Patel]

This video is from 10 days back

 

[Azedenkae]

What should I watch out for dropping salinity? what happens to my biological filter and why do i have to monitor ammonia?

Oh gosh, I never realized this experience of mine would ever be relevant on this forum. But here goes!

I am a microbiologist. Not pertinent per se, but just to give a background on why I was reading up on nitrifiers in peer-reviewed literature. And I stumbled upon an article talking about how marine nitrifiers were found to perform well in freshwater in biofilters, but not vice versa.

I converted a marine tank to a freshwater tank, and found that indeed the nitrifiers continued to function, even when salinity dropped to practically zero (the reverse was not true however). They did exhibit a lower nitrification rate, though that may be due to a bunch of different factors. But! They did reproduce quickly and catch up in a few days.

Thus my answer to you would be, you don't actually have to worry about your biological filtration when you drop your salinity.

 

[vetteguy53081]

This is unfortunate as I thought I did a good job QT my tangs and buying QT fish. less than 3 weeks ago i added 9 tangs (achilles, powder, 2 purples, 3 yellows, orange shoulder, hippo, 2 clownfish), Few days ago the achilles showed spots as did the hippo. Powder and one yellow has 1 or 2 spots.. Not possible for me to catch all the fish and house them somewhere for 76 days and let the tank run fallow. I dont have much microfauna on my rock, i have old LR in sump which i may QT in a separate tank, No snails, inverts or corals. I feel this hyposalinity is the easiest and practical thing considering I know my fish just got out of copper.

What should I watch out for dropping salinity? what happens to my biological filter and why do i have to monitor ammonia? Can't i just use Kalk in my ATO to bring up PH or dose as needed. Is this a good idea for my system?

You added them all at once?
With tangs being susceptible to Ich, these are a must for quarantine. It’s going to be hard to recommend treatment in a display tank UNLESS you ARE going fish only
Coppersafe is treatment of choice but you can take a gamble although NOT. A recommended treatment
Polyp lab MEDIC which is a peroxide salt and ruby rally pro together which are reef safe for a minimum of 10 days
This worked for me but not for everyone
Yes- you must monitor ammonia and nitrate levels and increase aeration

 

[Jay Hemdal]

This is unfortunate as I thought I did a good job QT my tangs and buying QT fish. less than 3 weeks ago i added 9 tangs (achilles, powder, 2 purples, 3 yellows, orange shoulder, hippo, 2 clownfish), Few days ago the achilles showed spots as did the hippo. Powder and one yellow has 1 or 2 spots.. Not possible for me to catch all the fish and house them somewhere for 76 days and let the tank run fallow. I dont have much microfauna on my rock, i have old LR in sump which i may QT in a separate tank, No snails, inverts or corals. I feel this hyposalinity is the easiest and practical thing considering I know my fish just got out of copper.

What should I watch out for dropping salinity? what happens to my biological filter and why do i have to monitor ammonia? Can't i just use Kalk in my ATO to bring up PH or dose as needed. Is this a good idea for my system?

Here is a link that might help:

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity Jay Hemdal 2021 This term refers to a long-term bath treatment for marine fishes in which the salt content of the water is lowered and held below the point that certain parasites can survive. The salt level reached, and the time of the treatment are the two variables...

www.reef2reef.com

A couple of comments:

Are you positive it is ich? With all those tangs it likely is....
As said, the nitrifiers won't have any real difficulty adapting to lower salinity.
Hypo will also control Neobenedenia flukes.
What is the history of the one YT with HLLE and the other one not having it?


Jay

 

[Ashish Patel]

Here is a link that might help:

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity Jay Hemdal 2021 This term refers to a long-term bath treatment for marine fishes in which the salt content of the water is lowered and held below the point that certain parasites can survive. The salt level reached, and the time of the treatment are the two variables...

www.reef2reef.com

A couple of comments:

Are you positive it is ich? With all those tangs it likely is....
As said, the nitrifiers won't have any real difficulty adapting to lower salinity.
Hypo will also control Neobenedenia flukes.
What is the history of the one YT with HLLE and the other one not having it?


Jay

Hi Jay,

I am pretty confident its Ich - never delt with any other parasite in the past.. scratching/flashing, i can count the spot. scratching started early on the achilles (maybe 10 days before spots), then spots showed, feeding phase. if spots fall off in 3-7 days is that a good sign its ich?

The 3 yellow tangs I had in my older system for 5 years. They where in a holding vat when i moved for 2 and half year and must have gotten HLLE during this time. They hide when i go in the basement so never even noticed until later. One tang is aggression and he is is chewed up for it, Ive always rinse my chemipure carbon but one time i was in a rush (maybe lastyear) and just dumped it in the sump without rinsing, that is only thing i can think off, I didnt realize carbon could cause HLLE and never got it for along time in hobby, then again that was the first time i didnt rinse carbon with tap water then soak in RO/DI, practice I usually do to remove any tap water and particles. The 5 years I had these fish never had any signs of ich or any other parasites, YT at good at hiding things so who know if they where carrying it all this time.

 

[Ashish Patel]

Oh gosh, I never realized this experience of mine would ever be relevant on this forum. But here goes!

I am a microbiologist. Not pertinent per se, but just to give a background on why I was reading up on nitrifiers in peer-reviewed literature. And I stumbled upon an article talking about how marine nitrifiers were found to perform well in freshwater in biofilters, but not vice versa.

I converted a marine tank to a freshwater tank, and found that indeed the nitrifiers continued to function, even when salinity dropped to practically zero (the reverse was not true however). They did exhibit a lower nitrification rate, though that may be due to a bunch of different factors. But! They did reproduce quickly and catch up in a few days.

Thus my answer to you would be, you don't actually have to worry about your biological filtration when you drop your salinity.

Thanks for your input. I had 100% sponge die of when i started this tank, probably the LR in the vat for 1 year in a cold rubber maid tub wasnt sufficent for their survival, I have some sponge in a QT that i was planning on seeding 100LB of LR (in the sump) but will hold off now, I dont think there is any life on my LR anyways that can die and cause a ammonia spike right now. If i had established LR I dont think i would consider hypo anyways.

 

[Ashish Patel]

Current state of the tank video. Fish where a bit overfed yesterday which I will chill out on. They looked bloated lol

 

[Eric R.]

There are some much more knowledgeable and experienced people on this thread than me, but @vetteguy53081 and @Jay Hemdal, what do you think about in tank H2O2 treatment instead of hypo?

Like this: https://humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/peroxide-h2o2-dosing-for-parasites-in-reef-tank.725/

 

[Miami Reef]

I can’t help you here, but might I add that I am astounded by your designing abilities!

The aquascape is so minimal, open, and clean! And white bare bottom looks crisp, and the balance between the yellows from the yellow tang and orange shoulder, blues from blue tang and powder blue, and red from achillies blends together so well.

Good luck to you, sir!

 

[Ashish Patel]

Hippo

 

[Ashish Patel]

Achilles

 

[Shooter6]

You added them all at once?
With tangs being susceptible to Ich, these are a must for quarantine. It’s going to be hard to recommend treatment in a display tank UNLESS you ARE going fish only
Coppersafe is treatment of choice but you can take a gamble although NOT. A recommended treatment
Polyp lab MEDIC which is a peroxide salt and ruby rally pro together which are reef safe for a minimum of 10 days
This worked for me but not for everyone
Yes- you must monitor ammonia and nitrate levels and increase aeration

You failed to read the post. They did qt, but still got ich in the display! It happens.

Also adding all the tangs at once is the smartest thing to do, then there's less aggression due to claimed territories

 

[Shooter6]

As for the op. Now is absolutely the best time to go hyposalinity.
Move the old liverock to a seperate container with airstones and ghost feed a little food each week to help support any life on and in the rock.
I'd keep it seperate for at least 90 days.
Drop the salinity in the display, but have extra hyposalinity water on hand for water changes in case you have some die off of pods ect that foul the water.
Since you are going hypo, I'd go for as close to 76 days, and add as many of your planned fish during the hypo, then over a month slowly increase your salinity back to your chosen level.

 

[Shooter6]

There are some much more knowledgeable and experienced people on this thread than me, but @vetteguy53081 and @Jay Hemdal, what do you think about in tank H2O2 treatment instead of hypo?

Like this: https://humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/peroxide-h2o2-dosing-for-parasites-in-reef-tank.725/

In a 400g display I doubt it would be successful.
Polylab has an ich medicine that is basically hydrogen peroxide salts.
That does not work even at extremely high doses and for extended periods of time

 

[Ashish Patel]

I can’t help you here, but might I add that I am astounded by your designing abilities!

The aquascape is so minimal, open, and clean! And white bare bottom looks crisp, and the balance between the yellows from the yellow tang and orange shoulder, blues from blue tang and powder blue, and red from achillies blends together so well.

Good luck to you, sir!

Thanks for the nice words, Means a lot

 

[vetteguy53081]

There are some much more knowledgeable and experienced people on this thread than me, but @vetteguy53081 and @Jay Hemdal, what do you think about in tank H2O2 treatment instead of hypo?

Like this: https://humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/peroxide-h2o2-dosing-for-parasites-in-reef-tank.725/

Not a fan of peroxide treatment. They take longer IF they work
I prefer to medicate followed by hypo

 

[Ashish Patel]

As for the op. Now is absolutely the best time to go hyposalinity.
Move the old liverock to a seperate container with airstones and ghost feed a little food each week to help support any life on and in the rock.
I'd keep it seperate for at least 90 days.
Drop the salinity in the display, but have extra hyposalinity water on hand for water changes in case you have some die off of pods ect that foul the water.
Since you are going hypo, I'd go for as close to 76 days, and add as many of your planned fish during the hypo, then over a month slowly increase your salinity back to your chosen level.

Thanks, Today i am going to remove the LR and add to small rimless tank that i have in the garage, Once the 5 turbo and 1 urchin arrive, i will just add them to this tank and let it run for 80+ days with the rock. I dont have any pods, fan worms, sponges, - all died off when I bought the rock 15 months ago and nutrients went through the roof first few months from the die off. I may seed this LR with some sponge I currently have in QT that way after the 80+ days I will have good LR to put back in the system, I was in planning stage to setup a coral QT so maybe just use this setup for fish less coral QT. only issue is i have to restart the clock everytime i put corals in so may just scratch that thought until more time passes.

 

[Ashish Patel]

You added them all at once?
With tangs being susceptible to Ich, these are a must for quarantine. It’s going to be hard to recommend treatment in a display tank UNLESS you ARE going fish only
Coppersafe is treatment of choice but you can take a gamble although NOT. A recommended treatment
Polyp lab MEDIC which is a peroxide salt and ruby rally pro together which are reef safe for a minimum of 10 days
This worked for me but not for everyone
Yes- you must monitor ammonia and nitrate levels and increase aeration

Thanks for your post, No way I was adding powder blue and achilles to a tank without all fish being QT. I did QT and held them all in different areas added them together. I even paid top dollar to get a Achilles from TSM aquatics who QT and condition better then i could and to avoid shipping stress drove 3 hour round trip to pick it up. Until yesterday I thought there was no in tank treatment that works but this only works for me since my tank right now is FOWLR. If my tank had established LR I would not consider Hypo since I am essentially killing the LR and resetting the clock. My display rock has been wet for 2 months only and has hair algae. the 100LBs of old LR in my sump is 10+ years and I can remove and use in a fish less QT for corals and inverts for 80 days.