Tonya's 210 Gallon

Magellan

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Question on bacteria in the water column. From my readings bacteria live on surfaces rock glass sand rotting food etc. while there is a smaller population in the water column I haven’t seen any info that would contra indicate water changes. Was there a percentage of WC that you read to be a worry?
In my head we buy live sand live rock no live water so never considered the possibility of doing harm with a water change unless it was massive and done in a hurry without matching temp,salinity,DKH, Ca mag and such. Did a quick search but ineffective in finding out more on WC damaging bio filter share a link if ya got it as my curiosity is peaked :)
I’ve seen Coral only tanks be successful with regular 100% water changes. Bacteria mainly need a surface to live on, not a lot of surfaces in the water column.
 
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RichtheReefer21

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Question on bacteria in the water column. From my readings bacteria live on surfaces rock glass sand rotting food etc. while there is a smaller population in the water column I haven’t seen any info that would contra indicate water changes. Was there a percentage of WC that you read to be a worry?
In my head we buy live sand live rock no live water so never considered the possibility of doing harm with a water change unless it was massive and done in a hurry without matching temp,salinity,DKH, Ca mag and such. Did a quick search but ineffective in finding out more on WC damaging bio filter share a link if ya got it as my curiosity is peaked :)
Her situation is unique.. because of the large water volume and the fact it's been up so long. When cycling a tank for the 1st time, water changes are not recommended for the same reason, although like I said, her situation is somewhat different due to the age etc.. if u show a spike in ammonia, its typically due to bioload out-pacing the bacteria growth (typically related to adding new livestock too rapidly and upsetting the balance) so in my mind, any removal of possible beneficial bacteria during a nutrient spike is not going to help the spike become controlled long term. Instead, let it be (as long as the spike doesnt exceed .25) so that ur not possibly putting any dent in the reproduction rate of the bacteria needed to establish itself enough to match the increase in ammonia output. If that makes sense. Gotta let it catch up if u will.
 

Raege

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Still like to see what percentage of bacteria are in WC I think numbers are insignificant to cause harm, As for a spike due to bioload would not be a near constant but increase day by day after introduction of animals ( pooping machines lol ) and a result of adding several fish (depending on tank bio surface area) to an immature tank with only resorts to me bring WC chemical neutralization removal of new inhabitants.
With any constant number ammonia in testing I’m suspect as it’s either on the rise waiting on biofilter to develop or falling as it kicks in gear like when we first cycled. For me a larger worry would be removal of pods small bits of life sucking water out that contribute to biodiversity,
Water changes not recvomended in cycling I think are more to not remove ammonia needed to feed a growing community you need x amount but not over 5ppm or you can stall the cycle,
Thanks for sharing like geekin out and now I shall end this hijacking of Tonyas thread and demand more pics of her tank :)
 
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Salty Lemon

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Okay...I find all this really interesting. I had a couple ideas about the tank which were the reasons for my water changes, and I would like you fellows' thoughts on this. Believe me, no hurt feelings here. I'm legitimately interested in this...
  1. When I was recovering last summer and fall, my tank was not maintained well and the parameters were not checked on.
  2. Because of this, I now have dinos (which are retreating). Ah, such a lovely shade of poopy-brown.
  3. I believe we were over feeding the fish.
Now, my thoughts were that the ammonia was spiking due to the algae growing and then dying off and the possible over feeding. This weekend was the first weekend I have purchased anything for my tank in at least 5-6 months -- so the bioload has been the same all this time, with the exception of the algae growing then decaying, and rotting food. I figured that scraping algae, water changes and sucking the detritus out of the gravel would help improve the situation. I assumed the yucky stuff would start to reduce, thus causing the bacteria and ammonia to get back in check and things would eventually balance out. Was this a correct way of thinking?
 
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Salty Lemon

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Magellan

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Okay...I find all this really interesting. I had a couple ideas about the tank which were the reasons for my water changes, and I would like you fellows' thoughts on this. Believe me, no hurt feelings here. I'm legitimately interested in this...
  1. When I was recovering last summer and fall, my tank was not maintained well and the parameters were not checked on.
  2. Because of this, I now have dinos (which are retreating). Ah, such a lovely shade of poopy-brown.
  3. I believe we were over feeding the fish.
Now, my thoughts were that the ammonia was spiking due to the algae growing and then dying off and the possible over feeding. This weekend was the first weekend I have purchased anything for my tank in at least 5-6 months -- so the bioload has been the same all this time, with the exception of the algae growing then decaying, and rotting food. I figured that scraping algae, water changes and sucking the detritus out of the gravel would help improve the situation. I assumed the yucky stuff would start to reduce, thus causing the bacteria and ammonia to get back in check and things would eventually balance out. Was this a correct way of thinking?
Reef maintenance 101 was followed, with predictable good results ;)

In a slightly more serious tone.. You balanced your import/export of nutrients with the extra cleaning and water changes. There is only so much available surface for ammonia consuming bacteria to grow on, so even if you did potentially have an ammonia spike (temporarily exceeding your bio filters’ ability to remove it via the nitrogen cycle) by hand removing the extra detritus that was causing that, you allowed the bio filter to get back on top of the ammonia issue and return your test results to zero where they belong. (and potentially were the entire time, you know I don’t trust the API test!)
 

Raege

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Magellan

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Salty Lemon

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Salty Lemon

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I didn't want to add yet another topic onto my thread last night in the middle of ammonia philosophies, but my itty bitty coral beauty died yesterday. I've never bought fish online before. The six-line arrived dead, and the coral beauty was so tiny, that I was worried that it would be picked on too much in my display tank. I would have purchased a bigger one. It hid in my QT from the moment I got it and didn't eat -- which one can expect from a new fish. I like to look at the fish I'm going to buy before I take it home. But I think from now on I'll stick with ordering corals and cucs online -- unless I can get a Gem Tang for $200. :)
 

Magellan

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I didn't want to add yet another topic onto my thread last night in the middle of ammonia philosophies, but my itty bitty coral beauty died yesterday. I've never bought fish online before. The six-line arrived dead, and the coral beauty was so tiny, that I was worried that it would be picked on too much in my display tank. I would have purchased a bigger one. It hid in my QT from the moment I got it and didn't eat -- which one can expect from a new fish. I like to look at the fish I'm going to buy before I take it home. But I think from now on I'll stick with ordering corals and cucs online -- unless I can get a Gem Tang for $200. :)
Never ordered fish online either :/
 

Victoria M

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Ordering fish on line is a catch 22. I prefer to see the fish in person too.
I think the water change and cleaning detritus up idea holds water, especially after the tank helpers were "helping" for a bit. I also like to add bacteria for ammonia spikes. Dr. Tim has some interesting videos, and articles on desirable bacteria in a tank.
 
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Salty Lemon

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I'd be watching my tank wake up this morning if it wasn't for my six-foot, skinny sixteen-year-old laying on the couch in my fish room. He's grown almost a foot in last eighteen months. I should feed my corals the same stuff he eats -- corn dogs and Pop Tarts. But to stay on a realistic reef track, I'm giving Vibrant a try. My dino outbreak from last summer is looking better, but I just want to kill it all off once and for all. I'm tired of the battle. Even Wonder Woman needs some help on occasion. I just hope I don't wipe out my stuff in the process. I had Liveaquaria send me a cuc boost with the store credit they gave me from fish that were essentially D.O.A. So I ordered some Bumblebee snails (because I have never had any) and hermits.
 

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Thats exactly what I did! Started vibrant, and used my credit for some crabs and bumble bees. I also got some trochus snails cause they are my fav! Hope the bumble bees live up to thier reputation!
 
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Salty Lemon

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Thats exactly what I did! Started vibrant, and used my credit for some crabs and bumble bees. I also got some trochus snails cause they are my fav! Hope the bumble bees live up to thier reputation!
Great minds think alike @MrWheelock ! :cool:
 

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