Trace elements debate

[Troylee]

Is your Alk really that high? Some of my torches have BJD and I was told it's the alk being at 14 being the cause of that. I blame reef crystals. I have now have it at 8.8 - 9.4 at the moment.

It sure is… playing with kalk trying to keep my ph over 8.3… I normally run it at 9 but I want faster growth I got a huge tank to fill lol.. I haven’t seen any ill effects running this high and I’ve always used reef crystals myself and still do… I do a 40% water change and it still stays 9ish… I bumped it all purposely to see if the corals responded with better growth or not.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Personally, I don't test, nor care about looking at what my trace elements are. I don't plan to dose it either. 10% weekly water changes seem to do just fine.

Or foods do just fine. The water changes may do little.

 

[CivicS14]

Or foods do just fine. The water changes may do little.

True. I feed excessively.

 

[Pod_01]

Personally, I don't test, nor care about looking at what my trace elements are. I don't plan to dose it either.

But you do dose trace element, as Randy said some from food and some from your calc reactor:

BTW you do have beautiful tank…

 

[Spare time]

I’m saying that a buzz word doesn’t make it the most important thing in the hobby I will say that trace is important but I think it’s made more important than it is.

Who is saying its the most important thing in the hobby?

 

[CivicS14]

But you do dose trace element, as Randy said some from food and some from your calc reactor:

BTW you do have beautiful tank…

I didn’t realize ARM had trace elements. Never tested it, nor cared to. I seen so many reefers chase numbers based on ICP test and dose all this crazy stuff and nothing ever improves. Seems like these companies and ICP test companies are in cahoots to make more money in an already expensive hobby.

 

[Spare time]

So is it just me or is this thread "I don't know anything about the topic but here is my opinion anyways." Why give an opinion at all if you admit you know nothing about the topic?

 

[areefer01]

So is it just me or is this thread "I don't know anything about the topic but here is my opinion anyways." Why give an opinion at all if you admit you know nothing about the topic?

Passing time? Post count? Who knows /shrug

 

[Pod_01]

I didn’t realize ARM had trace elements. Never tested it, nor cared to. I seen so many reefers chase numbers based on ICP test and dose all this crazy stuff and nothing ever improves. Seems like these companies and ICP test companies are in cahoots to make more money in an already expensive hobby.

I do try to understand why things work in reefing. There is lot of advice on what to do but the why is missing or confusing.

Calc reactor is good example, most people understand it provides Alk and Calc but proper media will also supply trace elements and phosphate. It is old method that works well and there is good reason why it works so well, all building blocks are provided.

 

[Dan_P]

Or foods do just fine. The water changes may do little.

Where did the notion come from that a regular water change replaced trace elements at a sufficient rate? Is it just a guess?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Where did the notion come from that a regular water change replaced trace elements at a sufficient rate? Is it just a guess?

I do not know, but I think it seems intuitive to people while the trace elements in foods are "hidden".

Salt mix makers may also help this along with their claims of trace elements present, and the implicit assumption that it matters (which is undemonstrated, IMO).

 

[Garf]

I do not know, but I think it seems intuitive to people while the trace elements in foods are "hidden".

Salt mix makers may also help this along with their claims of trace elements present, and the implicit assumption that it matters (which is undemonstrated, IMO).

Loads of folks suggest that waterchanges replace traces. What if the opposite is indeed the case, ie the reduction of elements through waterchanges appears to give a positive reaction?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Loads of folks suggest that waterchanges replace traces. What if the opposite is indeed the case, ie the reduction of elements through waterchanges appears to give a positive reaction?

That could be, especially for those like tin that can get elevated without aquarists intentionally adding them.

 

[Dan_P]

I do not know, but I think it seems intuitive to people while the trace elements in foods are "hidden".

Salt mix makers may also help this along with their claims of trace elements present, and the implicit assumption that it matters (which is undemonstrated, IMO).

Thanks, this helps.

I’ve always had that nagging question of “if you don’t know the consumption rate, how do you know that a water change does anything but slow the slide towards totally depleted”. The same question applies to what food delivers. How much does it deliver? How much is bioavailable?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The same question applies to what food delivers. How much does it deliver? How much is bioavailable?

It's not hard to know how much is in foods, but I agree there's a big unknown about how much finds its way to organisms in the tank, and which ones.

 

[Hooz]

Therein lies the dilemma. If you do weekly water changes then no dose required. If you don't do regular water changes then dosing is required but how much of each.

That's not true, actually. Weekly water changes don't replenish consumed trace elements, especially longer term. Unless, of course, you do 100% water changes with a freshly mixed, quality salt.

You can debate about the importance of dosing trace elements, but the "replenishing with water changes" thing is a common misconception.

 

[Lavey29]

That's not true, actually. Weekly water changes don't replenish consumed trace elements, especially longer term. Unless, of course, you do 100% water changes with a freshly mixed, quality salt.

You can debate about the importance of dosing trace elements, but the "replenishing with water changes" thing is a common misconception.

Gonna have to disagree with that. A lot of smaller tanks only do weekly water changes to replenish everything and keep parameters in balance with no additives required. I did weekly water changes most of the first year and never had to add any trace elements. Only when I went to once a month water changes did I start dosing trace to replenish.

 

[sfin52]

I love this post, I've read as much as I can on trace elements and respect what everyone is doing. I dose based on the fact I don't do water changes and My corals look "prettier" when I'm dosing something. I also have first hand experience with the fact that my algae turf scrubber actually bleaches (All algae on the canvas turns pure bleach white as snow). I asked around what would cause that. I thought I had introduced something toxic to hair algae. (If there is something that toxic to hair algae I want it bottled so I can sell it! )

I asked the maker of the algae scrubber and he said he's had a few people report that and it may be tied to a deficiency. I guess to eliminate hair algae, simply deprive one's tank of trace elements.

It's happened a couple times in the last 2 years where within 24 hours all algae on the screen just turns pure white and it doesn't grow. It scrapes off so easy that I'm pretty sure it's dead.

That said, since being religious about dosing trace elements, I haven't had that bleaching occur since. Plus, my coral colors all look amazing. I don't measure trace elements, but I give measured doses of them.

I think the argument at this point should be - is trace element dosing necessary for a healthy reef yes / no?

If it's healthy to do so, then we can argue the forms of trace elements until we're blue in the face. What I'm doing is working for me so far. I would love cheaper options, but, if it's not broken don't fix it.

That makes a lot of sense it's a growing plant it needs other elements than just nitrates and phosphates. House plants get fertilizer it has a lot in it not just phosphates and nitrates.

 

[Hooz]

Gonna have to disagree with that. A lot of smaller tanks only do weekly water changes to replenish everything and keep parameters in balance with no additives required. I did weekly water changes most of the first year and never had to add any trace elements. Only when I went to once a month water changes did I start dosing trace to replenish.

I have small tanks and do weekly water changes. It does replenish SOME things, but not everything. There have been several articles and videos done on it, but the simplest one I've found to explain it is this one (starting at the 5m 50s mark)...



I'll stand by my statement that, unless you're doing 100% water changes, you are not "replenishing everything". That's just not how it works.

 

[Lavey29]

I have small tanks and do weekly water changes. It does replenish SOME things, but not everything. There have been several articles and videos done on it, but the simplest one I've found to explain it is this one (starting at the 5m 50s mark)...



I'll stand by my statement that, unless you're doing 100% water changes, you are not "replenishing everything". That's just not how it works.

Thanks, I've seen that video before and do not use the balling method. I can only relate my own experience with what occurred with my system. I did 18% weekly water changes and quarterly ICP tests which showed the majority of my trace elements were fine with only minor high or lows on a few. I wasn't dosing any trace or even major elements the majority of the first year due to weekly water changes. Using your opinion, then all my trace elements should have been undetectable during my regular ICP tests but that simply was not the result. I use coral pro salt.