Treating SCTLD

[Andrews_aquarium]

After receiving a new AquaBiomics test result, Ive found that I have SCTLD in my system

I have been battling a mysterious RTN/STN event in my tank for months now. All parameters have been great, Ive sent out at least 5 ICP test results and fixed any minor problem I had so I figured it had to be something else, and aquabiomcs provided the answer.

Now, how to fix the problem? Its recently been proven that a new gel Amoxycillen has been proven to work against the disease: https://reefbuilders.com/2021/11/10...reatment-for-stony-coral-tissue-loss-disease/

As this gel is not publicly available yet I am attempting multiple treatments to try and rid the disease. AquaBiomics did post a fantastic article of using Ciprio to cure Brown jelly disease:

Intermediate Topic - Experimenting with in-tank antibiotic treatments for Brown Jelly Disease​

Brown Jelly Disease (BJD) is an issue many reefers have run into. Like most coral diseases, the pathogen causing BJD has not been conclusively determined. Here I will share some observations and test results supporting the idea that its caused by...

www.reef2reef.com

So my treatment to try and rid the tank of SCTLD is trying the Ciprio treatment along with Tritons STN-X and RTN-X treatment all at once. All of this is a lot for the tank but I'm at the point of desperation as I'm loosing corals and its only a matter of time until all of them are effected.

If this does fail I am thinking of dosing Amoxycillen to the whole tank as it would wipe out all the bacteria including SCTLD hopefully. But I'm sure I would loose a lot of livestock doing that.

Please anyone let me know your thoughts on this.

-Also wanted to point out that I added 10 pounds of Caribbean live rock to the tank about 6 months ago, this could definitely be the contributor but no way to prove it at this point, but something to keep in mind.

@AquaBiomics

 

[blaxsun]

Following with interest, thanks.

 

[BradR]

Just fyi cipro is considered more of a big gun than amoxicillin, at least in humans

 

[nbooks]

Just fyi cipro is considered more of a big gun than amoxicillin, at least in humans

Pharmacist here..."bigger gun" is a little misleading, i would only call it that because it can take out far nastier bacteria than amox.

Amox is a penicillin, cipro is a fluoroquinalone - amox alone can only take care of gram positive bacteria (strep, enterococcus), and a few select gram negatives. add clavulanic acid to get augmentin and then you can get a few gram negs.

cipro's prime use is gram negative bacilli (E.coli, Salmonella, Shigella)

is this the study?

Effectiveness of topical antibiotics in treating corals affected by Stony Coral Tissue Loss Disease

EDIT: the link you posted to the BJD article specifically says Arcobacter sp. is causing the infection, that is a Gram negative bacteria and makes me question why they are using amoxicilin.

this article shows some drug concentration (minimum inhibitory concentration) against arcobacter. ampicillin worked which is in the same class as amoxicillin, but has a little better gram neg activity.

Prevalence and antimicrobial susceptibility of Arcobacter species in human stool samples derived from out- and inpatients: the prospective German Arcobacter prevalence study Arcopath

Arcobacter species, particularly A. butzleri, but also A. cryaerophilus constitute emerging pathogens causing gastroenteritis in humans. However, isolation of Arcobacter may often fail during routine diagnostic procedures due to the lack of standard protocols. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Andrews_aquarium]

Pharmacist here..."bigger gun" is a little misleading, i would only call it that because it can take out far nastier bacteria than amox.

Amox is a penicillin, cipro is a fluoroquinalone - amox alone can only take care of gram positive bacteria (strep, enterococcus), add clavulanic acid to get augmentin and then you can get a few gram negs.

cipro's prime use is gram negative bacilli (E.coli, Salmonella, Shigella)

moral of the story - pick the antibiotic based on the coverage you need.


is this the study?

Effectiveness of topical antibiotics in treating corals affected by Stony Coral Tissue Loss Disease

Very Interesting!
Thank you for explaining that! So here are the 4 bacteria associated with SCTLD, do you recognize any of them as gram positive or gram negative? This could definitely be helpful in choosing my next treatment.

(via @AquaBiomics )

I will say that I just finished my Ciprio treatment and all recession has stopped. The next few weeks will determine if it actually worked if the Acros start growing back.

And yes that is the study that I read also.

 

[nbooks]

Very Interesting!
Thank you for explaining that! So here are the 4 bacteria associated with SCTLD, do you recognize any of them as gram positive or gram negative? This could definitely be helpful in choosing my next treatment.

(via @AquaBiomics )

I will say that I just finished my Ciprio treatment and all recession has stopped. The next few weeks will determine if it actually worked if the Acros start growing back.

And yes that is the study that I read also.

i just ninja edited my post while you were typing i think. i added a second paper and corrected something.

the only one one in that chart i have experience with is Vibrio (a species of that that causes cholera) so I know its gram neg.

google also shows Planktotalea as gram negative - if you see anything describes as rod shaped that is a hallmark of gram negative bacteria.

 

[KrisReef]

After receiving a new AquaBiomics test result, Ive found that I have SCTLD in my system

I have been battling a mysterious RTN/STN event in my tank for months now. All parameters have been great, Ive sent out at least 5 ICP test results and fixed any minor problem I had so I figured it had to be something else, and aquabiomcs provided the answer.

Now, how to fix the problem? Its recently been proven that a new gel Amoxycillen has been proven to work against the disease: https://reefbuilders.com/2021/11/10...reatment-for-stony-coral-tissue-loss-disease/

As this gel is not publicly available yet I am attempting multiple treatments to try and rid the disease. AquaBiomics did post a fantastic article of using Ciprio to cure Brown jelly disease:

Intermediate Topic - Experimenting with in-tank antibiotic treatments for Brown Jelly Disease​

Brown Jelly Disease (BJD) is an issue many reefers have run into. Like most coral diseases, the pathogen causing BJD has not been conclusively determined. Here I will share some observations and test results supporting the idea that its caused by...

www.reef2reef.com

So my treatment to try and rid the tank of SCTLD is trying the Ciprio treatment along with Tritons STN-X and RTN-X treatment all at once. All of this is a lot for the tank but I'm at the point of desperation as I'm loosing corals and its only a matter of time until all of them are effected.

If this does fail I am thinking of dosing Amoxycillen to the whole tank as it would wipe out all the bacteria including SCTLD hopefully. But I'm sure I would loose a lot of livestock doing that.

Please anyone let me know your thoughts on this.

-Also wanted to point out that I added 10 pounds of Caribbean live rock to the tank about 6 months ago, this could definitely be the contributor but no way to prove it at this point, but something to keep in mind.

@AquaBiomics

1. Could you post pictures of your suffering coral(s)?

2. Also, do you happen to use NSW from the Pacific Ocean?

3. Thanks very much for posting your incident report!

 

[sculpin01]

To my understanding, SCTLD does not affect Caribbean Acropora species, only LPS. If you are suffering Acropora losses, you may be dealing with a different issue.

Before proceeding to treating your entire tank, I would definitely prove that your choice of treatment will work, preferably in a hospital tank.

A year ago, I suffered a near wipe of my Acropora by RTN. I assumed it was a bacterial pathogen and did a Cipro/amoxicillin whole tank treatment with absolutely no improvement. Turned out that a frag I purchased brought Ostreopsis with it, and it was an Ostreopsis bloom that was killing my corals. Treatment was carbon (to absorb the Ostreopsis toxins) and UV at night (to kill the Ostreopsis). My tank rebounded in less than a week.

 

[i_am_mclovin]

This is a fascinating thread. Following

 

[Andrews_aquarium]

To my understanding, SCTLD does not affect Caribbean Acropora species, only LPS. If you are suffering Acropora losses, you may be dealing with a different issue.

Before proceeding to treating your entire tank, I would definitely prove that your choice of treatment will work, preferably in a hospital tank.

A year ago, I suffered a near wipe of my Acropora by RTN. I assumed it was a bacterial pathogen and did a Cipro/amoxicillin whole tank treatment with absolutely no improvement. Turned out that a frag I purchased brought Ostreopsis with it, and it was an Ostreopsis bloom that was killing my corals. Treatment was carbon (to absorb the Ostreopsis toxins) and UV at night (to kill the Ostreopsis). My tank rebounded in less than a week.

I agree, but I've been troubleshooting this for 5 months now and I can't find anything else. I have SCTLD in the tank at a high volume per liter also:

I definitely don't have Dinos, plus run carbon and my nutrients are stable.

Also even if the disease doesn't effect Caribbean Acros the disease is so new that who knows how it effects Indo-pacific acros? We barely know anything about it so far so it could effect different corals from different parts of the world in different ways.

I hate saying this but I've been keeping acros since 2002 and ive near had any of them decay like this. They turn gray every time- no matter the species from the base up for about a week, then they finally turn white and die off. Its very bizarre.

 

[Andrews_aquarium]

1. Could you post pictures of your suffering coral(s)?

2. Also, do you happen to use NSW from the Pacific Ocean?

3. Thanks very much for posting your incident report!

1.Yes I will get some pics for you tonight.

2. No I use 7 stage RO/DI with Tropic Marine Pro

3. No Problem!

 

[sculpin01]

I agree, but I've been troubleshooting this for 5 months now and I can't find anything else. I have SCTLD in the tank at a high volume per liter also:

I definitely don't have Dinos, plus run carbon and my nutrients are stable.

Also even if the disease doesn't effect Caribbean Acros the disease is so new that who knows how it effects Indo-pacific acros? We barely know anything about it so far so it could effect different corals from different parts of the world in different ways.

I hate saying this but I've been keeping acros since 2002 and ive near had any of them decay like this. They turn gray every time- no matter the species from the base up for about a week, then they finally turn white and die off. Its very bizarre.

There are some indications it's a field effect of multiple bacterial species, possibly potentiating Vibrio coralliilyticus:

Frontiers | Disease Diagnostics and Potential Coinfections by Vibrio coralliilyticus During an Ongoing Coral Disease Outbreak in Florida

A deadly coral disease outbreak has been devastating the Florida Reef Tract since 2014. This disease, stony coral tissue loss disease (SCTLD), affects at lea...

www.frontiersin.org

And Pacific corals have been infected by it (courtesy of the CHAMP Lab):




Some of the more recent experiences after treating with amoxicillin paste is that corals develop resistance to reinfection.

 

[sculpin01]

I did consider making homemade amoxil paste using this:

Fish Mox Amoxicillin - 250mg 30 capsules

entirelypetspharmacy.com

and this:

 

[Andrews_aquarium]

There are some indications it's a field effect of multiple bacterial species, possibly potentiating Vibrio coralliilyticus:

Frontiers | Disease Diagnostics and Potential Coinfections by Vibrio coralliilyticus During an Ongoing Coral Disease Outbreak in Florida

A deadly coral disease outbreak has been devastating the Florida Reef Tract since 2014. This disease, stony coral tissue loss disease (SCTLD), affects at lea...

www.frontiersin.org

And Pacific corals have been infected by it (courtesy of the CHAMP Lab):




Some of the more recent experiences after treating with amoxicillin paste is that corals develop resistance to reinfection.

Wow,
Great find @sculpin01

Those look exactly like mine after a certain point in time. Especially the Digitata.

Here is a mediocre photo of one my acros, this is usually how is starts, comes from the bottom up and is gray in color. It hasn't lost its tissue yet but if things don't improve it will. As you can see color and polyp extension stays healthy on the rest of the coral. This is how all the affected SPS have been acting, looks great with polyp extension and then those gray areas start to take over and kill it.

I did consider making homemade amoxil paste using this:

Fish Mox Amoxicillin - 250mg 30 capsules

entirelypetspharmacy.com

and this:

Thats a great idea, have you tried it yet?

 

[sculpin01]

I haven’t had the need to, so no. It would definitely be a project for a hospital tank until you know how corals react to the polygrip (definitely needs to be the “zinc-free variety”).

Just to note, tissue loss from base up is also characteristic of black bugs. I assume you have dipped your affected corals?

 

[Andrews_aquarium]

I haven’t had the need to, so no. It would definitely be a project for a hospital tank until you know how corals react to the polygrip (definitely needs to be the “zinc-free variety”).

Just to note, tissue loss from base up is also characteristic of black bugs. I assume you have dipped your affected corals?

Yes I dipped all in coming corals. I also did interceptor a month back just as a pre-caution because i still didn’t know that the disease was present in the tank and no improvement.

 

[Andrews_aquarium]

Wanted to give a quick update to the tank and treatment.

Ive just finished day 21 of the Triton RTN-X & STN-X treatment, along with the Cipiro. I have noticed a significant positive change.

My two worst corals have almost completely grown back from the infected areas. Gone from gray decaying coral tissue to it healing back. The real initial change took place after finishing the Cipiro treatment. Happy to say that at the moment the tank is doing incredible.

I sent another Aquabiomics test yesterday to see how the treatment worked on the DNA Test and hopefully it is none existent, but we will see. I will update again once I have the test results

 

[sculpin01]

That’s fantastic!

Did you follow Aquabiomic’s Cipro dosing recommendations?

 

[Andrews_aquarium]

That’s fantastic!

Did you follow Aquabiomic’s Cipro dosing recommendations?

Yes, used the exact amount that he used to treat BJD- "I used Ciprofloxacin at 0.125 mg / L. To achieve this I dissolved a 500 mg pill in 50 ml of RODI water, producing a 10 mg / ml solution (which I subsequently stored in the fridge). The aquarium system has 70 gal volume altogether (~265 L), so I added 3.3 ml of this solution to achieve 0.125 mg / L. I repeated this dose every 2 days for 3 doses altogether."

I really noticed the difference after the final treatment of Cipiro. Not sure how much the Triton treatments did, but we will see in January when I get my @AquaBiomics test back.

 

[sculpin01]

Knowing this, it may be worth treating Florida live rock with Cipro upon receipt and prior to addition to one’s tank as a precautionary measure.

Alternatively, sending water samples to Aquabiomics for pathogen analysis would be another route.