Trident reagent A empty notification...almost 100mL left in bottle

[brianbigoats]

Mine did the same thing I figured it was Neptune's way of making sure that reagents don't get drawn down to far and you lose prime on the line i am sure that repriming that line would use up quite a bit of reagent and might lead to some funky results

 

[Caravanshaka]

I just said 10% referencing the number earlier in this thread- haven't checked it myself. My trident has 30 tests left, so I in a few days will check to compare with you!

I forgot to mention a few things before. They also need to provide additional reagent because the user must prime all of the lines, and do calibration.

Did you do that, for this batch of reagent? Including re-priming the lines after putting in the 2nd Alkalinity bottle? That might be an automatic function, I gorget lol.

Yes, lines were properly primed each time.

Where did you get in my text that I work for Neptune?

The warning is that there are no tests remaining, no? Assuming that the OP was getting valid results, I dont see how air in the line would effect the calculated amount used :).

Also not sure where you got that I am dismissing a problem. I am just explaining the need to have an excess of reagent in the bottle- which is needed for several reasons. Priming the system, doing the calibration, etc.

The "problem" seems to be that there is excess reagent..

Do you work for Apex, MnFish? Or at least have any experience with the product at hand?

Didn't think so.

Dont give out false information- or did you forget to say "In my opinion" in your post "Nothing should be left if the notification says its 'empty'. If its a warning - perhaps at 10%"

I believe the term "empty" means "nothing left"...so he is correct in stating that "Nothing should be left if the notifcation says 'empty'", that is not false information. Maybe the notification should be "Low volume" or something.

No, this is not how it works.

People are basing their automated DOSING on trident results. If it sucks air rather than reagent, you will will dose incorrectly. (though if it is an extreme result, it should throw a warning).

Leaving 10% in the bottle and refusing to test any longer is a completely acceptable function. This prevents users from potentially messing up their systems based on the Trident results.

I believe I read that Neptune Systems INTENTIONALLY gives you extra reagent- it is STILL a 2 month supply as advertised

You make this sound like you know exactly how it works, and that 10% is how much that should be left in the bottle. You later say you took 10% from a previous post, which was clearly a speculation. Please don't post values if you don't know them. Neptune also states that the Trident comes with 1 month supply, and that it is the same as their 2 month supply, but with all of the initial calibrations and priming for the first time, they wanted to err on the side of caution and only claim 1 month.

It is completely normal, see my response above. You still get your 2 months worth, without potentially sucking an air bubble and messing with automated dosing.

It is not completely normal to have 92ml out of a 300ml bottle of reagent left over just to reduce the sucking of bubbles. The internal line inside the bottle touches the bottom, you wouldn't waste 1/3 of each reagent bottle worried about bubbles.

 

[MnFish1]

BTW @TheHarold is a very valuable member here - But I have to say - I dont get the point in this thread. But - its probably just me

 

[Caravanshaka]

BTW @TheHarold is a very valuable member here - But I have to say - I dont get the point in this thread. But - its probably just me

That's good to hear on @TheHarold, we can all get carried away in threads, especially those about products we love. I took out a bit of my post above, as I don't intend for it to be as personal as it sounded when I re-read it. Apologies for that @TheHarold

I'm just looking for clear answers, and want to hear from Neptune that over 30% of a reagent bottle is indeed the correct time for me to get a notification that it is "empty".

 

[TheHarold]

That's good to hear on @TheHarold, we can all get carried away in threads, especially those about products we love. I took out a bit of my post above, as I don't intend for it to be as personal as it sounded when I re-read it. Apologies for that @TheHarold

I'm just looking for clear answers, and want to hear from Neptune that over 30% of a reagent bottle is indeed the correct time for me to get a notification that it is "empty".

No worries. Mine probably sounded too personal as well, my response to @MnFish1 . :(

In a few days, I will be able to compare the amount of reagent I have leftover when it days empty.

 

[TTNuge]

Was this your 1st or 2nd bottle of Reagent A that came with the Trident?

 

[Brett S]

I believe that the Trident uses titration for it’s tests, so it will keep adding reagent until a specific endpoint is reached and the results of the test are based on the amount of reagent used to reach that endpoint.

Depending on the alkalinity level of the water it may need to use a lot of reagent for each test or it may only use a little reagent to reach the endpoint. I suspect that the trident doesn’t actually track the amount of reagent used, but simply counts the number of tests done.

If your alkalinity level is such that not a lot of reagent is needed per test then it makes sense that you would have a lot left over after the prescribed number of tests. They need to make sure that there is enough reagent in the bottle to cover the people who need to use a lot of reagent per test.

 

[Caravanshaka]

Was this your 1st or 2nd bottle of Reagent A that came with the Trident?

This was my first bottle of A

I believe that the Trident uses titration for it’s tests, so it will keep adding reagent until a specific endpoint is reached and the results of the test are based on the amount of reagent used to reach that endpoint.

Depending on the alkalinity level of the water it may need to use a lot of reagent for each test or it may only use a little reagent to reach the endpoint. I suspect that the trident doesn’t actually track the amount of reagent used, but simply counts the number of tests done.

If your alkalinity level is such that not a lot of reagent is needed per test then it makes sense that you would have a lot left over after the prescribed number of tests. They need to make sure that there is enough reagent in the bottle to cover the people who need to use a lot of reagent per test.

I believe it is titration as well. My Alk has 7.6-7.8 for the month for reference.

 

[jonmos75]

This was brought up on Lets Talk Reef @ 15.15

 

[User1]

@jonmos75 that was a good find. Thank you for sharing.

Interesting enough I caught it from 13:00 mark and he is talking about the supply and demand vs. how it is manufactured and what they are actually doing which is causing the slow down. Simply put they are not going to a manufacturing company and saying build me 1,000 pumps and be done. They are actually getting the Tridents made then they are going through and calibrating them and doing other things I believe he said while also running for a couple hours each. So there is a bottleneck clearly in that process that I'm sure they will be working on to improve as they learn though the numbers.

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

This was brought up on Lets Talk Reef @ 15.15

Care to summarize?

 

[Caravanshaka]

Thanks for the video link and time to look. He goes over why there is some left in the bottle, but doesn't go into how much is a reasonable amount to see in there. I can buy 5-10%, but 31% seems really excessive. @Terence, can you clarify the volume that we should expect to see left in the "empty" reagent bottle?

 

[TTNuge]

Anything more than is required to get a full 4/2/2 schedule done for 1 or 2 months depending on which reagent it is is reasonable. Running out prematurely is UNreasonable. Even 100ml is probably pennies and nothing they are concerned about compared to having someone run out too soon.

 

[Water Dog]

I’m curious to see how much reagent B and C are left after you get the “empty” warning. Since most reef keepers set their Ca at 440 and Mg at 1350 there shouldn’t be as much variability of reagent use as compared to a parameter like Alk. So 5 - 10% remaining in B & C should be acceptable. If they have 20 - 30% remaining... :eek:

 

[vetteguy53081]

Good debate. These are the issues I want to see before I make the move on making purchase

 

[Caravanshaka]

Can we get an answer @Terence? What is an acceptable volume of reagent to be left in the bottle after you get the 'reagent X empty' notification?

 

[MnFish1]

Can we get an answer @Terence? What is an acceptable volume of reagent to be left in the bottle after you get the 'reagent X empty' notification?

I think you may not know - there is a thread for trident questions - and Neptune people monitor that one?
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/trident-faq-official.595650/page-22#post-6141542

 

[Hitch08]

Wish I would have thought to measure how much was left when I replaced my first reagent A. I was surprised how much was left, when I did change it out.

 

[Don Lidtke]

Can we get an answer @Terence? What is an acceptable volume of reagent to be left in the bottle after you get the 'reagent X empty' notification?

Terence covered this in the last Let’s Talk Reef. I found his explanation very helpful.

 

[Caravanshaka]

Terence covered this in the last Let’s Talk Reef. I found his explanation very helpful.

Yes, I saw that, but there was no mention of how much should be left. Is it 10ml, is it 50ml, is it 100ml? We still don’t know.