Tropic Marin All for reef dosing calculations

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

If your alk target is lower, lowering the dose is fine. If you alk target is near or above your current value, you might reduce the dose and add some sodium carbonate for alk. That said, 529 ppm calcium is fine.

 

[Salty_Northerner]

If your alk target is lower, lowering the dose is fine. If you alk target is near or above your current value, you might reduce the dose and add some sodium carbonate for alk. That said, 529 ppm calcium is fine.

I was shooting for 9 dkh. In your opinion would you continue dosing AFR but at a lower dose just so things don't bottom out. I understand how the formate works by using bacteria and basically to keep the system rolling... would it make more sense to just lower the dose and carry on, or stop dosing for a couple days and let the numbers drop?

My thinking is or rather my perception I should say on the product is, I don't want to stall out the bacteria conversion or am I looking at it totally the wrong way?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I'd lower the dose a little and see what happens over a week or two, which should lower alk, then if calcium continues to climb, reduce it more and replace it with sodium carbonate.

 

[Salty_Northerner]

I'd lower the dose a little and see what happens over a week or two, which should lower alk, then if calcium continues to climb, reduce it more and replace it with sodium carbonate.

Thank you I'll do that and see what happens. I really do appreciate all your help there Randy.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

You're welcome

Happy reefing. :)

 

[Sordfish]

You're welcome

Happy reefing. :)

Thanks for the informative posts. Do you (or any one else) know what the nature of the bacteria is? I’d specifically be interested in knowing where these bacteria reside - in the water column or rock surfaces, etc? I ask because I run UV at very high doses - 120000 - due to ICK management. Would that disrupt the bacteria consuming AFR, rendering it less effective?

 

[Salty_Northerner]

@Lou Ekus can you answer the above question, well I know you can but are you available.

 

[Lou Ekus]

Thanks for the informative posts. Do you (or any one else) know what the nature of the bacteria is? I’d specifically be interested in knowing where these bacteria reside - in the water column or rock surfaces, etc? I ask because I run UV at very high doses - 120000 - due to ICK management. Would that disrupt the bacteria consuming AFR, rendering it less effective?

It is my understanding that the majority of the beneficial bacteria we are promoting are found in coral structures and substrates. Not that they are totally absent in the water column. It's just that the water column is not the primary residence for them. That being said, I am usually not a fan of running UV 24/7 in reef systems. Just my opinion that, unless you have a specific active process you are trying to deal with, the UV is attempting to sterilize water that your animals are depending on nutrition/food/life to be located in. In the case of Ick, it is not something that usually necessitates 24/7 management. Again, unless you have an active outbreak you are trying to deal with.

 

[Sordfish]

It is my understanding that the majority of the beneficial bacteria we are promoting are found in coral structures and substrates. Not that they are totally absent in the water column. It's just that the water column is not the primary residence for them. That being said, I am usually not a fan of running UV 24/7 in reef systems. Just my opinion that, unless you have a specific active process you are trying to deal with, the UV is attempting to sterilize water that your animals are depending on nutrition/food/life to be located in. In the case of Ick, it is not something that usually necessitates 24/7 management. Again, unless you have an active outbreak you are trying to deal with.

Thanks. I am actively managing an outbreak - will stop the UV in a few weeks. I wanted to find out whether this was going to disrupt AFR. I just started dosing it. If UV is an issue I’ll go to the balling method instead. I expect I’ll have to run UV during outbreaks and I don’t want my alkalinity to be effected while I am dealing with an outbreak. That’d be overwhelming.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Thanks. I am actively managing an outbreak - will stop the UV in a few weeks. I wanted to find out whether this was going to disrupt AFR. I just started dosing it. If UV is an issue I’ll go to the balling method instead. I expect I’ll have to run UV during outbreaks and I don’t want my alkalinity to be effected while I am dealing with an outbreak. That’d be overwhelming.

I do not believe that the UV will be a specific issue with AFR since most bacteria are attached to surfaces.

 

[Lou Ekus]

Thanks. I am actively managing an outbreak - will stop the UV in a few weeks. I wanted to find out whether this was going to disrupt AFR. I just started dosing it. If UV is an issue I’ll go to the balling method instead. I expect I’ll have to run UV during outbreaks and I don’t want my alkalinity to be effected while I am dealing with an outbreak. That’d be overwhelming.

I don't think the UV will influence the alkalinity much at all. I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[SinkyShippy]

I'm not understanding that calculation.

It is not hard to determine how much alk and calcium All for Reef adds from their info provided to resellers, even if it is written with some technical problems:

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/all-for-reef-tropic-marin.html
Specifications (per 500 mL)

• Carbonate Hardness Concentration: 2,800 dKH
• Calcium Concentration: 20,000 mg Ca
• Magnesium Concentration: 950 mg Mg

Ignore the technical issues with that statement, one would most credibly interpret it to mean it is 40,000 ppm in calcium and 5600 ppm in alkalinity.

Thus, adding 0.1% of the tank volume boosts alk by 5.6 dKH and calcium by 40 ppm.

You can use this calculator and use the entry for Randy's Recipe #1, then multiply the amount needed for an alk boost by 0.91 and for a calcium boost by 0.93 since it is a little more potent than my two part.

http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html

Hey Randy. Question for you, if I multiply the amount needed by .91 and .93 it's going to reduce the amount since it's a fraction no? What would you recommend for the magnesium?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Hey Randy. Question for you, if I multiply the amount needed by .91 and .93 it's going to reduce the amount since it's a fraction no? What would you recommend for the magnesium?

Correct, though the change is small.. If you need magnesium, most commercial magnesium only supplements are likely fine, but the best choice for a diy is:

Do-It-Yourself Magnesium Supplements for the Reef Aquarium by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

3. A certain mixture of magnesium chloride and magnesium sulfate has no net effect on seawater's major anions (chloride and sulfate). All that is necessary for such a recipe is to add these two ingredients in such a ratio that they add chloride and sulfate in the ratio naturally present in seawater (which is 7.1 to 1 on a weight basis and 9.6 to 1 on a per ion basis).

To perfect such a recipe, it's imperative to know the amounts of sulfate in Epsom salts (39%), the amount of chloride in magnesium chloride hexahydrate (34.9%), and their bulk densities, because most aquarists will use a volume based measurement (1.05 g/cm3 for Epsom salts and 0.85 g/cm3 for magnesium chloride hexahydrate solids). Taking all these factors into account, the desired volume ratio is 10:1, MAG flake to Epsom salts, as a supplement; for instance, 10 cups MAG flake and 1 cup Epsom salts.

 

[SinkyShippy]

Correct, though the change is small.. If you need magnesium, most commercial magnesium only supplements are likely fine, but the best choice for a diy is:

Do-It-Yourself Magnesium Supplements for the Reef Aquarium by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

3. A certain mixture of magnesium chloride and magnesium sulfate has no net effect on seawater's major anions (chloride and sulfate). All that is necessary for such a recipe is to add these two ingredients in such a ratio that they add chloride and sulfate in the ratio naturally present in seawater (which is 7.1 to 1 on a weight basis and 9.6 to 1 on a per ion basis).

To perfect such a recipe, it's imperative to know the amounts of sulfate in Epsom salts (39%), the amount of chloride in magnesium chloride hexahydrate (34.9%), and their bulk densities, because most aquarists will use a volume based measurement (1.05 g/cm3 for Epsom salts and 0.85 g/cm3 for magnesium chloride hexahydrate solids). Taking all these factors into account, the desired volume ratio is 10:1, MAG flake to Epsom salts, as a supplement; for instance, 10 cups MAG flake and 1 cup Epsom salts.

Maybe I didn’t word the question correctly but I was specifically referring to the magnesium in AFR. What would be the multiplication factor for the mag?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Maybe I didn’t word the question correctly but I was specifically referring to the magnesium in AFR. What would be the multiplication factor for the mag?

I still don't understand the question. I do not know how much magnesium is in AFR, if that is the question.

 

[MarcosTacos]

Sorry to bring this back up. But what will the starting amount (5ml per 26gal or 100l) amount to in calcium increase (ex: 2ppm, 3ppm)?

 

[Salty_Northerner]

Sorry to bring this back up. But what will the starting amount (5ml per 26gal or 100l) amount to in calcium increase (ex: 2ppm, 3ppm)?

Here is the calculator
https://www.tropic-marin-smartinfo.com/all-for-reef?lang=en

 

[reefGods]

I wonder the same. Why wouldn’t they just add the amount of mL to add in order to increase 0.1 dKH per whatever amount of gallons?

I would say it would take the guess work out of dosing.

I am going to set up a nano 10 G nuvo soon and am planning on going 3 part balking method from Red Sea since it is easy to dose , once you know how much your reef needs.

I will probably switch to A4R once I have my tank set up after a while in order to dose those trace elements into my reef.

I will use the mathematical reference one of these guys stated to guess the amount of mL of A4R to add to my reef and test every other day once I dose A4R, but from what I can see , using this product takes some guess work and when it comes to reefing , guess work makes me anxious lol

for a 55 gallon how much should I dose off reef tropic Marin?

 

[Salty_Northerner]

for a 55 gallon how much should I dose off reef tropic Marin?

 

[H.E. Pennypacker]

I'm not understanding that calculation.

It is not hard to determine how much alk and calcium All for Reef adds from their info provided to resellers, even if it is written with some technical problems:

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/all-for-reef-tropic-marin.html
Specifications (per 500 mL)

• Carbonate Hardness Concentration: 2,800 dKH
• Calcium Concentration: 20,000 mg Ca
• Magnesium Concentration: 950 mg Mg

@Randy Holmes-Farley in the past you've recommended 10% dosing mg to calcium. Based on those weights AFR contains 5% - is this too low in your opinion?